Free Will

Comley, Filip errancy@infidels.org
Fri, 28 May 1999 12:49:29 +0100 (00927910169, 5357281BA58AD2118A840008C71E833D234A78@CDCR-S04) 

SHAWN B

>And we DO have free will.  Romans 1 says:

>

>RO 1:21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor

>gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish

>hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became

>fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to

>look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

>

>    RO 1:24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their

>hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one

>another. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and

>served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised.

>Amen.

>

>    RO 1:26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even

>their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the

>same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were

>inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with

>other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their

>perversion.


FIL:
  Can someone please tell me why 'God giving them over to......' means we
have free will?

  Also, to use the translation of the bible that I have used before:

Romans 8:20:
For creation was condemned to lose its purpose, not of its own will, but
because God willed it to be so.  Yet there was the hope

Does this not state that the Fall was willed by god?  This line has always
put me in mind of Pandora's box.  god has given you all the
sins/diseases/famines etc, but don't worry there is always hope.

And of course, John, Chapter 12:

37: Though he had done so many signs before them, yet they did not believe
in him; 
38: it was that the word spoken by the prophet Isaiah might be fulfilled: 
"Lord, who has believed our report, 
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?" 
39: Therefore they could not believe. For Isaiah again said, 
40: 
"He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, 
lest they should see with their eyes and perceive with their heart, 
and turn for me to heal them."

  The real reason I am not a Xian is because god has hardened my heart and
blinded me in lest I should see and perceive, and so, turn to him for
healing.

  I will go to hell for not believing, and god has stopped me from
believing.  Hmmmm  This is free-will thing is far too subtle for me.