A Definition of God (fwd)

Tim Taylor errancy@infidels.org
Wed, 12 May 1999 13:30:35 -0700 (PDT) (00926559035, 19990512203035.22688.rocketmail@web103.yahoomail.com)



--- kssulzbe@iupui.edu wrote:

>
> I recall someone on the list wanting a definition of God, well i recently
> got one from someone else, so i thought i'd forward it so that this list
> could have a look.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> Here are a list of divine attributes that function meaningful in my
> concept of God:

>KSS
> 1. God is personal
> 2. God is active
Tim A deist would disagree.
>KSS
> 3. God is not an active force or a divine wind; Rather, God is
>a center of consciousness that possess a will.In short, God is a person.
Tim "Person 3.a: one of three modes of being in the Trinitarian Godhead as understood by Christians." (From Webster's Collegiate) Thus, this definition is not useful outside Christianity. Further, since person=God, and God=person, all you have given us is a tautology (e.g. single man=bachelor, bachelor=single man).
>KSS
> 4.God the person is separate from his nature. God is not identified
> with His nature 100%. Rather, classical theists (unlike Descartes)
> believe that God is bound by his nature.
Tim To understand this, one must refer to "nature" in number 5 where...
>KSS
> 5. God's nature is logical not in a robotic, numbers-crunching way.
Tim ..we are told that what his nature is NOT.
>KSS
> Rather, classical theists believe that God's nature is rational.
Tim Followed by : rational 1a. having reason or understanding. (ibid) So, God has the same nature as man.
>KSS
> 6. God is transcendent. God is transcends both space and time.
> That is, God is over and above space and time.
> 7. God is not limited by space or time.
Tim Translation: I will define everything not completely understood by contemporary science as "God". Also known as "God" of the gaps. Also, please provide contemporary evidence for the existence of the Biblical God prior to say, 4000 BC without begging the question of the accuracy of the Genesis account.
> 8. God is immanent in the created, material world.
Tim "immanent: remaining or operating in within a domain of reality or realm of discourse" (ibid) Man meets this definition. Do you have any extra-biblical evidence that God has operated within the domain of reality after OT times? If so where? when? (Again, without begging the question of Biblical accuracy)
>KSS
> 9. The Christian concept of God is that God the Creator should
>never be identified with any part of His creation. God the Creator
> is separate and distinct from His creation. (How different from
panentheism!!!) Tim And how utterly useless as a definition. Again,see "god of the gaps" above. By different, do you mean "better"?, If so, in what way?
>KSS
> 10. God is defined as omnipotent.
Tim Nope: Judges 1:19 (NIV) The LORD was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had iron chariots.
>KSS
>11. God is also defined as omnipresent.
Tim Nope: Genesis 3 (NIV) 9 But the LORD God called to the man, "Where are you?"
>KSS
> 12. God is defined as infinite.
Tim See above, "god of the gaps".
> KSS
> 14. Biblical revelation leads the Christian theist to rationally
> believe that God's nature is not capriousness. <snip>
Tim Nope: 2 Samuel 6:6 (NIV) When they came to the threshing floor of Nacon, Uzzah reached out and took hold of the ark of God, because the oxen stumbled. 2 Samuel 6:7 The LORD's anger burned against Uzzah because of his irreverent act; therefore God struck him down and he died there beside the ark of God. (many more examples available on request)
>KSS
> 15. God is defined as love.
Tim "love: Main Entry: 1love Function: noun 1 a (1) : strong affection for another arising out of kinship or personal ties <maternal love for a child> (2) : attraction based on sexual desire : affection and tenderness felt by lovers (3) : affection based on admiration, benevolence, or common interests <love for his old schoolmates> b : an assurance of love <give her my love> 2 : warm attachment, enthusiasm, or devotion <love of the sea> 3 a : the object of attachment, devotion, or admiration <baseball was his first love> b (1) : a beloved person : DARLING -- often used as a term of endearment (2) British --used as an informal term of address 4 a : unselfish loyal and benevolent concern for the good of another: as (1) : the fatherly concern of God for humankind (2) : brotherly concern for others b : a person's adoration of God 5 : a god or personification of love 6 : an amorous episode : LOVE AFFAIR 7 : the sexual embrace : COPULATION 8 : a score of zero (as in tennis) 9 capitalized, Christian Science : GOD - at love : holding one's opponent scoreless in tennis - in love : inspired by affection " Compare with: 1 Kings 15 (NIV) 29 As soon as he began to reign, he killed Jeroboam's whole family. He did not leave Jeroboam anyone that breathed, but destroyed them all, according to the word of the LORD given through his servant Ahijah the Shilonite-- This example (many more available on request) contradicts most of the definitions of "love" above. If you choose 5, you leave us once again with a meaningless tautology.
>KSS
> 16. In the Christian concept of God, there may exist many
>logical impossibilities with God. God, because of His nature,
>is unable to perform the logically impossible.
> For example, God cannot make 2+2=45555.

> However, Christian theists believe God is able to perform the physically
> impossible (walking on water,etc.)
>
> 17. The Christian God is defined as a being who is able to suspend
> temporarily the natural laws (gravity) in order for the purpose of
> performing miracles.
>
> Miracles in the absence of God are impossible. Miracles in the worldview
> of a God is possible and meaningful.
Tim Nothing unique to the Christian God here. Vespasian cured a blind man, Vespasian must have been "God", no?
>KSS
> What further information can I provide?
Tim A definition that (1) does not simply put the tag "God" on areas that man currently does not have knowledge of or (2) begs the question of Biblical accuracy (statements made by Biblical writers about the nature of God). _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com