Prayer Challenge Update

Josh P Livingston errancy@infidels.org
Mon, 3 May 1999 22:35:19 -0700 (00925814119, 19990503.223522.-7031.1.joshlivingston@juno.com) 

Hi Joe,

JOE M

> Alward,are you implying that there are verses in the NT that apply to 

>people 

> today? If so,could you please list one? Name one verse in the NT that 

>was 

> intended for an audience two-thousand years in the future.

> 

> When the Fundies read the verses that Crea cited they are egocentric 

>when 

> reading them and believe that they are the intended audience and not 

>the one 

> the letter was addressed to. Not only is the Bible full of errors and 

>

> contradictions,but I have always wondered why believers would believe 

>in a 

> book that was never written to them in the first place.


LIVINGSTON
	The gospels were written to the Christian community with, to my
knowledge, no time limit put on their applicability.  Some of the
epistles were written to specific Christian churches, but that doesn't
mean that the author would have said something different to a modern
church or person in the same situation.  For instance, Jesus said "Love
the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, strength, and soul." 
(paraphrased)  He said this was the great commandment.  He didn't say
that it only applied to 1st century believers, but seemed to imply that
it was a universal statement of ethics that had been around for over a
thousand years and would continue on in the future.  
	I could claim that everything that Socrates said only applied to his
direct audience as well.  However it is clear that Socrates was saying
things that he believed to be objectively true.  Something that is
objectively true would apply just as much today as it would two thousand
years ago.  



>================

>Joe Alward:

>

>I agree with you.  It was Crea, I believe, who MAY have been implying 

>that 

>the verses he cited applied to Bakke's debate opponent.  I pointed out 

>that 

>Crea's verses all had Jesus speaking to "you", meaning people standing 

>before 

>him, his followers.  I'm waiting for him to do the further research 

>necessary 

>to back up what I think is his contention that the bible says that 

>believers 

>in all times and places will have all of their prayers answered.  I 

>believe 

>that the verses Crea pointed out only show that he was promising his 

>current 

>followers that good things would happen to them if only they would 

>trust him 

>(Jesus) and obey his commands.  While we're waiting for Crea to get 

>back to 

>us, what do you think?

>

 LIVINGSTON
	How about this one?
	1 John 3:22
	"And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his
commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight."

	Obviously this verse isn't directed to Jesus' direct disciples.  To try
to claim that every statement in the Bible applies only in it's immediate
context starts to become ridiculous.  Also,if you take a quick look-see
at the context of John 14:13-14 you will see that Jesus is addressing
anyone who "believes on him", not just his immediate disciples.

Sincerely,
Josh Livingston

	"He who is being carried does not realize how far the town is"
			-Nigerian Proverb-
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