Where did Josiah die?

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Another installment from Mr. Sherman and my reply.


>From: "Sherman, Matt" <MSherman@modimes.org>

>To: "'aaron rainwater'" <aaron@rainwater.net>

>Subject: RE: Where did Josiah die?

>Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 17:39:19 -0500

>

>> >> |aaron|

>> >> You think it "looks like an error of English translation"?  Then

>> >> you must be, right?  Show me why the English is in error, please.

>> >

>> >Aaron, it is extremely simple. There is nothing in the Hebrew verse to

>> >indicate "then" he died, just "he died"--the end of the verse says in

>> >English "...they brought him to Jerusalem, and he died..." {here you say

>> >contradiction--you did not find this one for yourself, did you?}

>>

>> |aaron|

>> No, I got it off the list..

>>

>> Anyway...

>>

>> 2 Chronicles 35:24

>>

>> (English-NIV)

>> So they took him out of his chariot, put him in the other chariot he had

>> and brought him to Jerusalem, WHERE HE DIED.  He was buried in the

>> tombs of his fathers, and all Judah and Jerusalem mourned for him.

>>

>> (English-NASB)

>> So his servants took him out of the chariot and carried him in the second

>> chariot which he had, and brought him to Jerusalem WHERE HE DIED

>> and was buried in the tombs of his fathers. *All Judah and Jerusalem

>> mourned for Josiah.

>>

>> (English-RSV)

>> So his servants took him out of the chariot and carried him in his second

>> chariot and brought him to Jerusalem. AND HE DIED, and was buried in

>> the tombs of his fathers. All Judah and Jerusalem mourned for Josi'ah.

>>

>> [ The sentence occurrence and structure makes it clear that he died in

>> Jerusalem. ]

>>

>> (English-KJV)

>> His servants therefore took him out of that chariot, and put him in the

>> second chariot that he had; and they brought him to Jerusalem, AND

>> HE DIED, and was buried in one of the sepulchres of his fathers. And all

>> Judah and Jerusalem mourned for Josiah.

>>

>> [ Here we see "and" being used to connect the sequence of events

>> "took him out of that chariot" and "put him in the second chariot" and

>> "brought him to Jerusalem" and "he died" and "buried in one of the

>> sepulchres".  Seeing as it would be hard to put a person in a second

>> chariot unless they had been in a first, and that bringing them to

>> Jerusalem would be kind of hard unless you put them in the chariot

>> that would take them there, and that burying someone would be

>> kind of rude unless they died first, and that morning for someone

>> would not be too appropriate until they were at least dead, I would

>> have to say we obviously have a list of sequential events here.  If

>> you wish to state otherwise, it would seem the ball is in your court. ]

>>

>> (English-YLT)

>> And his servants remove him from the chariot, and cause him to ride

>> on the second chariot that he hath, and cause him to go to Jerusalem,

>> and he dieth, and is buried in the graves of his fathers, and all Judah

>> and Jerusalem are mourning for Josiah,

>>

>> [ I would make the same argument as above for this version. ]

>>

>> So Sherman, based on the number of translations I've supplied, it

>> would appear that your assertion that Chronicles does not plainly

>> say that Josiah died in Jerusalem needs evidence.

>>

>> >SHERMAN

>> >It reads "...they brought him to Jerusalem, and he died and was buried in

>> >one of the sepulchres of his fathers. And all Judah and Jerusalem mourned

>> >for Josiah." Aaron, the context is obviously that he was not buried in

>> >Meggido but in Jerusalem. You are being thrown by the "and he died" or

>> "then

>> >he died" and not finishing the reading of the verse, which gives any

>> verse a

>> >help with its context. Thank you for posting this to the list, as it is

>> >typical of the garbage which is put there as "contradictions".

>>

>> |aaron|

>> My...What a pretty strawman you've built.  No one said he was buried

>> in Meggido.  In fact, as you pointed out, the text makes that very

>> clear.  The question is not where he was buried, but where he died.

>>

>> >> >The follow-up question is: where did Josiah go AFTER he died,

>> >> >and do you and I wish to go there? I do and will!

>> >

>> >> |aaron|

>> >> Let's stick to one problem at a time...

>> >

>> >SHERMAN

>> >Here's a problem. Share with me a Bible contradiction you found for

>> yourself

>> >and not from the list or antiapologists. Pray and ask God to show you one

>> >for me to refute so we can get to the next stage! I am not giving up on

>> you!

>>

>> |aaron|

>> I think we're doing just fine with this one...

>

>SHERMAN

>You are not listening, so I am going to move the goalposts. Show me

>a contradiction affecting Christ's resurrection from the dead in the

>Scriptures (not outside them) because Josiah's death does not affect

>your eternal destiny as far as I can tell.



|aaron|

No, Mr. Sherman.  We can move on once we've dealt with this one.
Josiah's dying place affects the status of the inerrancy doctrine.  Once
we've established that your holy book is in error in one of these two
accounts, then we can move on to something that my eternal destiny
may rely on.  (Though, I think the inerrancy of the Bible would affect
this "eternal destiny" somewhat.)  It is obvious these two versions of
Josiah's death are contradictory.  You have read the verses, and you
refuse to show why they are not contradictory.  You told me that you
wish to deal with inerrancy.  You asked me to hurry up and show you
one of the alleged contradictions in the bible.  I have shown you one.
You tried to show why it is not a contradiction.  I took the time to copy
SEVEN different translations of 2 Chronicles 35:24.  I took the time to
show why they ALL have the obvious meaning that Josiah died in
Jerusalem.

It is you who is not listening...If you think I am not listening, then tell
me what argument you have made that I did not adequately deal with.
Show me why ALL of these English translations are faulty, because
they all say that Josiah died in Jerusalem.  If you think one or two of
them leave room for Josiah dying in Meggido, then explain to me why
the other 5 make it clear he died in Jerusalem.  I am open for correction,
Mr. Sherman, but you seem to not want me to know why I am wrong
about my conclusions here.  Please, read the verses again, read my
commentary on the verses again, and forgive me for my inability to
listen well, then tell me where I have made error(s).

Thank you...

--
aaron rainwater

"Dear old world, you are very lovely,
and I am glad to be alive in you"
- Anne of Green Gables

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