BOUNCE: Nonmember submission
Farrell Till jftill@midwest.net
Mon, 08 Mar 1999 14:26:17 -0800 (00920953577, 2.2.32.19990308222617.0087f9a8@midwest.net)
At 09:38 PM 3/7/99 -0000, Matthew Bell wrote:
> > ----- Forwarded Message ---------
>> >
>> >DATE:
>> >From:
>> >To: errancy@infidels.org
>> >
>> >Has anyone here at anytime in their life become a Christian, only to
>> struggle with the bible? I don't believe the bible to be true anymore,
>but
>> I'm having a hard time with what I thought were answered prayers in the
>> past. I am soooo confused. If my prayers really were answered by God,
>then
>> does that mean the bible is true? I don't expect anyone to have the
>answer
>> to my confusion, I'd just like some input. I really don't want to
>believe
>> that the bible is true. I mean God killing babies, and all the slaughter
>He
>> commanded. I have a really hard time with that and all the
>contradictions.
>> >
>> >--------- End Forwarded Message ---------
>
>Matthew Bell
>Posts such as the above are pointless, except for PR for Farrell Till and
>the Errancy list. If a Christian is struggling with a particular matter of
>faith, they should be going to Christians for help in resolving such, not
>non-Christians.I mean what does this poster expect to hear back from
>errantists - 'Well, no my friend you just stick in there and God will come
>good with the answers?' The poster of the above has already made their
>mind up that there is no justifiable reasons for 'God killing babies' and
>that 'all the contradictions' actually are contradictions. I reckon they
>have been reading to much of the Secular Web and not of the Bible they are
>'doubting'.
TILL
Matt, I forward the first of all nonmember submissions regardless of what
the content of the message may be. As I explained in another posting, I
then send a notice to the sender that the list will not receive messages
from those who are not *ubscribed to the list. If the person doesn't
subscribe, I then ignore all subsequent messages no matter how complimentary
they may be to my position.
As for your complaint above, I suppose you think it would be entirely
appropriate for a Christian with doubts to send a message like this only to
Christian lists so that the answers received would all try to assure him
that it's all right if God kills babies, because if God can give life, he
can take life, or God did those poor babies a favor to kill them at a time
when they would go to heaven instead of letting them grow up to be evil like
their parents, etc., etc., etc., ad nauseam.
BELL
> I would of course be happy to dialogue with the individual on his current
>predicament.
TILL
Do you remember when I told you several weeks ago that I had received a
telephone call from Norway from a Christian who had doubts and wanted help
in coping with them? I suggested that he join the list, and you sent a
message to the list somewhat like the one above. Well, this person joined
Errancy and had the opportunity to see both sides, and he must not have been
very impressed with yours. I'm sure he had to see many of your attempts to
"explain" biblical discrepancies, since you are one of the major
contributors from that side. He recently sent me a message notifying me
that he had informed his congregation that he no longer believed that the
Bible was inspired of God. You had your chance with this person, and you
blew it, because anyone who has gone through the first stages of doubting
the Bible will have no problems at all recognizing the absurdity of the
explanations that you and the Jason Carters on this list give. A couple of
days before I went to the hospital, this person called me again to tell me
how relieved he is to have all of this behind him now. According to you, of
course, he is supposed to be living in anguish and misery, but that
perception is completely contrary to the experiences of those who go through
this.
This person was also a member of the ex-tian list, and he sent the following
message there after he had made his decision.
>For those of you who are new to this list, I'm glad you came here!
>
>I've been really busy this last week, preparing for my coming out as an
>ex-tian to my wife and our church (reviewing bible contradictions, reading
>web pages people here recommended me etc.).
>
>I told my wife about my deconversion on Thursday. She took it very hard. I
>tried to tell her gently, and I briefly told her how I reached my
>conclusions. I did not discuss any biblical discrepancies with her, but told
>her she can ask me any questions when she's ready.
>
>Well, she became very shocked at my deconversion. She's still in shock. She
>has been crying a lot and saying some very hurtful things to me, which she
>later apologized for. She feels like her whole world has collapsed. It
>really breaks my heart to see her suffering like this. I would much rather
>have preferred her to scold me, yell at me and attempt to evangelize me.
>
>The good part is that we have both assured each other that we still love
>each other and really want to continue with our marriage. We've been married
>four years. I've been worried that she would leave me, and when I came out
>to her, she became afraid that I'd leave her.
>
>I am really grateful for the thoughts and advice people on this list shared
>with me, it has made it easier for me to handle this difficult situation as
>good as I can.
>
>Thursday night we had our preacher and his wife over, so I could tell them
>about my deconversion and so my wife could talk to them about this. I'll
>tell you about this in my next post, titled "Bastard preacher". After
>talking to him I really want to send a post with this title!!!
>
Farrell Till
Skepticism, Inc.
jftill@midwest.net