A Question for Bronson
Farrell Till errancy@infidels.org
Tue, 01 Jun 1999 00:44:30 -0700 (00928241070, 2.2.32.19990601074430.008fa104@midwest.net)
At 08:34 PM 5/31/99 EDT, you wrote:
>In a message dated 5/30/99 1:24:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>jftill@midwest.net writes:
>
>>
>> At 12:44 AM 5/29/99 EDT, you wrote:
>> >In a message dated 5/26/99 1:48:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>> >jftill@midwest.net writes:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> TILL
>> >> Inscriptions at the entrance of an Assyria temple at Nimrud dates from
>> the
>> >> 8th century B. C. One of the inscriptions purporting to be by King
>> >> Assur-Nasir-Pal claims that this king captured the city of Damdamusa
>and
>> >> killed 600 of their warriors, burned 3,000 captives with fire, and did
>> not
>> >> leave a single one of the inhabitants alive. He took Hulai, their
>> >governor,
>> >> flayed him, and then spread his skin upon the wall of the city.
>> >>
>> >> Now here is a question for Randy Bronson. If this is a historically
>> >> accurate report of what happen, was Assur-Nasir-Pal's conduct
>objective
>> >> immoral?
>> >>
>>
>> >RANDY
>> >
>> > Yes.
>> >
>>
>> TILL
>> Good, maybe we are making some progress now. Here is more of the
>> inscription, which you can find quoted in Crane Brinton's, *A History of
>> Western Morals,* Harcourt, Brace, & Co., p. 48:
>>
>> "An 8th-century B. C. inscription on the pavement slabs of the
>> entrance to the temple of Urta at Nimrud, attributed to King
>> Assur-Nasir-Pal: "At that time I received tribute of the land of
>> Isala--cattle, flocks, and wine. To the mountain of Kahiari I crossed to
>> Kinabu, the fortified city of Hulai I drew near. With the masses of my
>> troops and by my furious battle onset I stormed, I captured the city; 600
>of
>> their warriors I put to the sword; 3,000 captives I burned with fire; I did
>> not leave a single one among them alive to serve as a hostage. Hulai,
>their
>> governor, I captured alive. Their corpses I formed into pillars; their
>> young men and maidens I burned in the fire. Hulai, their governor, I
>> flayed, his skin I spread upon the wall of the city of Damdamusa; the city
>I
>> destroyed, I wasted with fire....
>>
>> "And now AT THE COMMAND OF THE GREAT GODS my sovereignty, my
>> dominion, my power, are manifesting themselves; I am regal, I am lordly, I
>> am exalted, I am mighty, I am honored, I am glorified, I am preeminent, I
>am
>> powerful, I am valiant, I am lion-brave, and I am heroic. Assur-Nasir-Pal,
>> the mighty king, the king of Assyria, CHOSEN OF SIN, FAVORITE OF ANU,
>> BELOVED OF ADAD, MIGHTY ONE AMONG THE GODS, I am the merciless weapon that
>> strikes down the land of his enemies..." (emphasis added).
>> *****************************
>>
>> Notice that Assur-Nasir-Pal claimed that these deeds were done at the
>> "command of the great gods," and that he was "chosen" of these gods to
>> "strike down the land of his enemies." So if the gods commanded him to do
>> this things, why would it have been objectively wrong for him to obey?
>>
>> I can't wait to see your answer.
>>
>
> RANDY
>
> Neither one of us believe in the existence of the gods to which
>Assur-Nasir-Pal
>refers. And neither one of us would regard his claim of divine direction as
>a moral
>justification for his actions. I don't believe I've ever stated otherwise.
>I think I'm
>missing what you must consider to be the force of your argument.
>
TILL
Whether I or you or anyone else believe in the existence of these Assyrian
gods is beside the point. Assur-Nasir-Pal believed in them, probably just
as much as Joshua and Saul believed in Yahweh. So if you contend that
Assur-Nasir-Pal's massacres described in his inscription were objectively
immoral but the massacres of Joshua and Saul were objectively moral because
Yahweh had commanded them, you are begging a question you need to prove.
The only proof you have that Yahweh commanded the massacres of Joshua and
Saul is the mere fact that someone living in an ancient, superstitious time
SAID that Yahweh commanded them. But Assur-Nasir-Pal also said that his
gods had commanded him to commit the massacres described in his inscription.
What's the difference?
What is your proof that Yahweh did indeed order those atrocities? I sent a
posting today about the similarities in the ancient Near Eastern religions.
I'd like to see your reaction to it and a rational explanation for why we
should think that of all of the religions at that time, one of them really
was the true one.
Farrell Till
Skepticism, Inc.
jftill@midwest.net