Amusing

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TERRY
I think you are not deliberately being dense Brian, I think sometimes you
just seem to  want to be dense.  No where in this thread did I say that
religion's hope of an afterlife was proof of anything.  I said people are
dying everyday and that most definitely is a condition that is factual.
Religion offers a hope of an afterlife, that is also a fact.

POOBAH
Well Terry, this is either a lie, you are misremembering, or you are just
very poor at expressing yourself. Here is what you said:

TERRY (past - emphasis added)
*Most Religions offer a hope for an afterlife* (a) and since *people are
dying every day* (b), *I certainly see this condition to be true* (c).

POOBAH
If all's you were saying was that people die everyday (what's your next
insight, the sun rises everyday?), then you didn't need to set up the
conditional statement you did above where you say (a) and since (b), then
(c). I hardly think I'm being dense for reading this statement as implying
(a) & (b) are proof of (c).

But evidently that isn't what you meant, so we'll just chalk it up to poor
communication.

TERRY
Not only do I make my best attempt at an argument, I think I make a very
good attempt at an argument.  Personally, the time/money/effort,  I spend
on religion is something I  very much enjoy. As a matter of fact,  given
the amount of enjoyment I get out of it, I would probably spend it even if
I knew I was not going to have an afterlife.

POOBAH
You know what Terry, good for you! and I mean that in all seriousness, no
sarcasm. However, your personal experience does not generalize, and doesn't
change the fact that Pascal's Wager when it claims that the believer loses
nothing if he is wrong, simply isn't true for at least the reasons
described.

And as I mentioned, if an addicted gambler told you that he really enjoyed
throwing his money away, really enjoyed the time spent hobnobbing with
show-girls and hanging out with other gamblers commiserating, I somehow
doubt if you'd think that was really compensation for what he was losing. I
bet you'd think if he just tried leaving his emotional crutch behind, he'd
be better off.

So we'll just have to disagree on that one.

TERRY
I suppose you are referring to legalized gambling which I would not do
regardless of my religion.

POOBAH
Yes, but my point is that you probably wouldn't accept the argument from a
gambler that gambling is good because even though he knows he is pouring his
money down the drain, he enjoys it. You yourself are making the same
argument.

TERRY
There are also no foods that I enjoy which I am forbided  to eat.  I can't
speak for others, but I know that I get great joy out of my service to God.
So I believe the scrafices I make do make up for any losses right now, and
that is before any reward of an afterlife later.

POOBAH
Can't argue with that. Sounds like you've made a good choice for your life,
Terry.

POOBAH (past)
Thirdly, the point about the blood transfusions is Terry I doubt you would
criticize your own co-religionists for not accepting blood transfusions, but
that's essentially what you are faulting the atheists for in your flawed
analogy, hence the irony & special pleading.

TERRY
It's your life Brian, you are free to live it anyway you want, as long as it
does not interfere with the rights of others to live their life the way they
want.

POOBAH
Well, actually, Terry, I agree with that statement, although I fail to see
how it is relevant to the statement I made above. Further, I would fight for
yours, and anyone else's, right to refuse whatever medical care they wished.

That's beside the point, however. The point was that you said that the
argument for doing nothing against Pascal's Wager made no sense, because if
someone was confronted with a life-threatening condition, the worst thing
they could do was nothing. I'm simply pointing out that if you wouldn't
object to a JW doing that very thing in real life for ethical reasons
(personally, I don't), then why would you object to an atheist doing the
same in this hypothetical case? Or are you claiming it makes no sense when a
JW refuses medical care?

Mind you, this is not the strongest argument against Pascal's Wager.

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