Happy To Kill Children [not the abortion thread again!]
Bryce Anderson bryce_anderson@yahoo.com
Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:33:16 -0800 (PST) (00915597196, 19990105223317.13002.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com)
> > Lee Markland
> > Tis you that are defining a foetus as an unborn
> > baby, and abortion as murder. There is no
> > prohibition in the Babble against abortion.
> Matthew Bell
> This is incorrect, ignoring the theology of Christianity. If
Christian theology
> is correct and human life begins at conception then the commandment,
'Thou
> shalt not commit murder', is applicable to the act of wilful
termination of
> that life, especially in those cases where such is done as a matter of
> convenience or a last resort contraception.
> > Lee Markland
> > The point at which life can be deemed to exist is
> > only one that can be settled in the courts.
> Matthew Bell
> That something is ruled legal by man, does not mean it is lawful to
God, nor
> acceptable to practice, approve, or preach by Christians. Man's law
is to be
> obeyed, except where it contravenes God's law.
BRYCE
You're absolutely right! You have to give credit to the brave
Christians in the 1800s who tried to end the slave trade because
slaves weren't being sold according to God's Holy Price List:
Leviticus 27 (KJV)
1And the LORD spake unto Moses,
saying,
2Speak unto the children of Israel,
and say unto them, When a man shall
make a singular vow, the persons
shall be for the LORD by thy
estimation.
3And thy estimation shall be of the
male from twenty years old even
unto sixty years old, even thy
estimation shall be fifty shekels of
silver, after the shekel of the
sanctuary.
4And if it be a female, then thy
estimation shall be thirty shekels.
5And if it be from five years old
even unto twenty years old, then
thy estimation shall be of the male
twenty shekels, and for the female
ten shekels.
6And if it be from a month old even
unto five years old, then thy
estimation shall be of the male five
shekels of silver, and for the female
thy estimation shall be three shekels
of silver.
7And if it be from sixty years old
and above; if it be a male, then thy
estimation shall be fifteen shekels,
and for the female ten shekels.
8But if he be poorer than thy
estimation, then he shall present
himself before the priest, and the
priest shall value him; according to
his ability that vowed shall the priest
value him.
BRYCE
I have it on good authority that slaves brought to America
weren't even sold for shekels, but for the un-biblical "dollar."
I do have to disagree with Lee in one respect, though. The
decision of the court seems to be an arbitrary method of determining
when life begins.
[snip some pro-choice arguments]
> Matthew Bell
> The law dictates to us all what to do with our bodies, e.g. laws
against
> prostitution, homosexuality, incest, drug abuse. From the Christian
perspective
> that the foetus is a human life from conception, incest is the one
which most
> closely relates to abortion, where an adult causes harm to a minor,
often their
> own child, and from a very young age. That the law of man, who has
increasingly
> forfeited Christian standards to their, and societies cost, does not
recognise
> abortion in this manner, is no excuse nor reason for Christians to
follow suit.
> As long as Christians hold that view, they will rightly seek to
lawfully
> prevent such irresponsble acts if infanticide.
> > Lee Markland
> > Better yet still, keep it in your pants.
>
> Matthew Bell
> Responsible sex, with appropriate precuations is the responsibility
of both
> partners. Again, if the Christian standard of marriage and sex
within such was
> taught and upheld, then there would be far more unwanted pregnancies
and fewer
> abortions.
BRYCE
How about polygamy? The OT doesn't appear to find anything wrong
with it, and the NT only says that deacons and bishops shouldn't have
more than one wife (1 Timothy 3)
From my reading of the NT, the "Christian standard of marriage
and sex" is that sex is evil, but less so within the bonds of
matrimony. Don't ask me to quote the exact verse, please (1
Corinthians 7:1-9).
> Matthew Bell
> The cause of unwanted pregnancies is generally irresponsible sex,
caused by the
> abandonment of Christian values in what is our so called advanced
society.
BRYCE
"Christian values" are constantly pointed to as the solution to
society's ills. Strangely, those who so glibly use the term are
unable to come up with a comprehensive statement of those values.
Matt, I challenge you to create a statement of Christian values that
can be biblically supported.
[snip]
> Matthew Bell
> Christian marriage is about sharing, not grasping hold of one's
possessions.
> The decision to have a child is a shared one, if such happens
unplanned, then
> both have responsibility for ensuring the well-being of the unborn
child.
> No-one in a marital situation or a pregnancy has the right to
uniliaterally
> dictate what is and what is not to happen.
BRYCE
I fully agree with the last sentence, but I won't accept the
first until Matt gives me a chapter/verse for it.
I hope this doesn't spin off into a non-errancy abortion debate,
though I doubt it can be helped. The ii newsletter had an interesting
ungodly debate over whether abortion was ethical (both sides of the
debate were atheists). I'm rather mushy and undecided about the whole
question, but I found it enlightening nonetheless:
http://www.infidels.org/infidels/newsletter/1999/january.html#Reproductive
Freedom
==
Bryce Anderson
http://members.tripod.com/~Idafab/index.html
Dilbert: How do you like my poem?
Dogbert: Did you know that, if you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite amount of time, they'd write the complete works of Shakespeare?
Dilbert: But what about MY poem?
Dogbert: Three monkeys, ten minutes.
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