Crucifixion Burials - St. Paul

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> >JASON

> >Now you've really confused me.  Who is 'they?'  Let's try it this way:

> >

Acts [13:27]  "For Jesus' disciples that dwelt in Jerusalem, and their

> >rulers, because Jesus' disciples

> > knew him not, nor yet the voice of the prophets which are read every

> >sabbath

> > day, Jesus' disciples have fulfilled them in condemning him.

> >

> >   [13:28]  "And though Jesus' disciples found no cause of death in him,

> >yet desired Jesus' disciples [of]

> > Pilate that he should be slain.

> >

> >   [13:29]  "And when Jesus' disciples had fulfilled all that was

> >written of him, Jesus' disciples

> > took him down from the tree and laid him in a sepulchre.

> >====

> 

> CREA

>     Gently, Jason, gently.  The hoops one would have to jump through on the

> way to justifying such a reading boggles the imagination.  And besides, no

> one is holding auditions for an Alward replacement. ;-)


JASON
Do you have evidence that no one is holding such auditions? ;-)

No, there is absolutely no basis for such a reading.  It's very clear
that the same people who desired that he die were the same 'they' who
took him off the cross and buried him.  The most likely reading here is
that 'they' were 'the Jews.'  If someone were to read from this account
with the assumption that Jesus was taken down from the cross and buried
by his disciples, they would conclude that the disciples fulfilled
condemning him, finding no cause of death in him, desiring that he
should be slain, and fulfilling all that was written of him.

Heck, what do I know?  I misspelled my own name.
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> AJSON

> >And this truly is a confusing point:  Why would the author of Acts

> >(presumably the author of the Gospel of Luke) say that the same people

> >who crucified Jesus were the ones to take him down from the cross and

> >bury him?  Especially considering that he wrote in his Gospel that:

<snip>

> >Did Joseph of Arimathaea desire that Jesus should be slain?  Did Joseph

> >of Arimathaea put Jesus in a sepulchre?



> CREA

>     Maybe -- just maybe -- "Luke" is honestly reporting what he had heard

> concerning this speech by Paul, in which case it looks like Paul's sources

> of information concerning the crucifixion were sadly misinformed (or

> possibly the oral traditions which crystallized into the gospels'

> crucifixion accouts were not yet available).  But then again, that's just

> not possible with a "verbally inspired" text like the bible is supposed to be.


JASON
Frankly, why even bother with what Luke said Paul said, when we can read
what Paul himself wrote?  As another thread turns, Paul's idea of Jesus'
resurrection was strictly spiritual, and Paul would have been offended
by someone's insistence that Jesus physically rose from the dead.  So
the impetus for my original question is this:  we know that crucifixion
victims were sometimes buried by being tossed into shallow pits.  Does
Paul ever state that Jesus was buried in a tomb?  Considering the ease
with which this was related by the later gospelers, isn't it incredibly
strange that Paul never once mentioned Jesus' being buried in a tomb?

If Luke were reporting what Paul actually said (not likely), why
wouldn't Luke change it, since it explicitly contradicts what Luke
himself wrote?  On the other hand, why would Luke make up this speech
when it contradicts what Luke himself wrote?  Tres confusing.

Take 'er easy,
Jason

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