Crucifixion Burials
Achilles achillesz@usa.net
Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:49:12 -0500 (00918272952, 21475827655355@unifour.com)
On 5 Feb 99, at 15:56, JAlw@aol.com wrote:
> Ed
>
> Joe, I want to make it perfectly clear that I have never made any such
> harebrained claim; I have merely called attention to the fact that the
> gospels' claims that Jesus would have been afforded burial have no
> credibility. There is no reason to believe that Jesus was buried, and
> there is no evidence that any victim of Roman crucifixion was buried.
> Period.
>
> As far as names of researchers: Crossan, Borg, Meier, Vermes, Davies,
> Funk, Hoover, Mack, Wink, and Winter ought to get you started. There's
> not a disinterested scholar on the planet who buys the gospels' yarn
> about Jesus being buried after crucifixion.
> =================
> Joe Alward:
>
> I'm more interested in why *you* think that the evidence shows that there
> is
> no evidence that crucifixion victims were buried, and why you think
> absence of evidence in this case justifies claiming evidence of absence.
>
> The only facts you have given the list so far are these, as best I can
> tell:
>
> (1) Millions of skeletons have been unearthed.
> (2) You know of one person who *may* have been crucified.
>
> I think it would be appropriate to give the specific references which you
> rely on to conclude that burial of the remains of those crucified was an
> extraordinarily unlikely occurrence in the 1st Century. Since you are the
> one who made the claim, don't you think you should at least give *one*
> quotation from one of the researchers who supports your view?
>
> I hope you agree that *you* are the one making a rather unusual claim:
> bodies were just cast aside for the animals to eat rather than buried.
> So, if yours is the extraordinary claim, do you think it is fair to demand
> that those who question your claim go and do the research themselves, to
> find the specific passages in the references that you recall reading?
> Shouldn't you provide these quotes yourself in defense of your claim?
> It's not really enough for you to say that every researcher you know
> agrees with you, is it? Just go one step further and tell us what they
> said and where they said it, and when, please.
> >>
Achilles
Look, Joe, first off the claim that Romans cast the bodies of those they
executed to be eaten by scavengers rather than allowing burial is NOT an
extraordinary claim. That was their MO, and I dare say they weren't the only
ones that did this. It was an extra punishment, an extra incentive to not cross
them, since many people then (and even today) had a superstitious fear of not
being properly "laid to rest" after their death.
I am sure that if you want to do a little research you will have no trouble
finding references to show that this was standard practice.
I doubt you will be able to *prove* that no exceptions were ever made, that's a
negative claim. The fact that it was standard practice not to allow burial
however, in conjunction with the archaeological evidence Ed mentions, does make
the claim of an exception rather unlikely.
So far as the archaeological evidence, I am not going to look up sources, you
can believe me or not, I am busy enough already. I am relying on memory from
lectures and discussions I had with working archaeologists several years ago.
He is right that there are a great number of skeletons recovered from that
time, and I am also aware of only that one that showed signs of crucifixion.
This doesn't prove that an exception might not have been made in a particular
case, but it certainly shows the notion to be unlikely, and makes it clear
which side is really making the extraordinary claim.
The case Ed is making is perhaps not beyond a reasonable doubt, but it is
definitely valid "by preponderance of the evidence" - there is a great deal of
evidence on one side, and nothing but hearsay from decades after the supposed
event on the other.
/Achilles achillesz@usa.net
All rights reserved.
Random thought for the moment:
The Bible is such a gargantuan collection of conflicting values that
anyone can 'prove' anything from it.
-- Dr. Jacob Burroughs in The Number of the Beast