Legal case for the virgin birth (so that ELF will see this)

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> TOM:

> The legal/historical method of evidence is a method of formulating 

> proof, not a Clintonian play on definitions.  It deals with presenting 

> historical information in a legal fashion and building a case on 

> preponderance of evidence.  

> 

> BRIDEAN

> In that case, since there is a law student on board, please present

> your "legal" case for the "virgin birth".  I will change the topic so

> that our resident "legal expert" can see it and judge the relative

> legal merit of it.  Since you have no eyewitnesses though, it seems

> your "legal" approach is going to fall short.

> 

> As far as "historical" the only thing you can verify historically is

> that Christians believed the "virgin" birth from the beginning.  


Achilles

I seriously doubt even that can be proven. The earliest mention I can think
of 
would be in the Gospels, which *might* have been written as early as 70 ce.


I seem to recall also reading that Ignatius around the turn of the century 
wrote arguments to *pursuade* other Christians that Mary was the mother of 
Jesus, if that's correct it would good evidence that not all Christians 
believed that at the time. Anyone know the reference I am thinking of, or
maybe 
a site where I could find it? 


BRIDEAN
Sorry, even if Mary was a virgin when she gave birth she would still
be the "mother" of Jesus.  If not, why not?

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