Rule of "Audience" (Was re: The Rich Man)

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Matthew Bell
The method is simple, if a passage is directed at believers then it applies
to believers, it it is directed at non-believers it applies to
non-believers.
(Places his head in chopping block :)

EDWARDS
<snip>
What is the penalty for non-compliance with such statements/directives?  And
if you say that the penalty is not severe enough to keep one from going to
heaven, then I'd point to John 8:51, 14:15, 14:23 and 15:10 and comment that
it would seem very difficult to make it into heaven without keeping Jesus'
commandments (I'm assuming you will consider Paul to have been speaking for
Jesus/God, and that Paul's commandments can be considered synonymous with
Jesus'/God's commandments).

Matthew Bell
There would only be a penalty if the justifications given for not complying
were unsatisfactory to God. If there were to be a penalty I would envisage
such
to be chastisement, not rejection. A Christian is saved by faith, not works.

EDWARDS
I think I need to present the text from the verses I mentioned previously;
all are from the AV:

(a) Jn 8:51:  Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he
shall never see death.
(b) Jn 14:15:  If ye love me, keep my commandments.
(c) Jn 14:23:  Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will
keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and
make our abode with him.
(d) Jn 15:10:  If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even
as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

I would now suggest that these verses link keeping Jesus'
sayings/commandments to eternal life (a), the love of Jesus (b and c), and
Jesus' love (d).  If we look at the converses of these sayings, one who does
not keep Jesus' commandments will see death (I think it's fair to interpret
this as meaning that he will not receive eternal life), he does not love
Jesus, and he will not abide in Jesus' love.  As I interpret this, salvation
itself is explicitly linked to keeping Jesus' commandments.

It appears to me that your view is that Paul's commandments carry the force
of a commandment directly from Jesus and, by implication, God.  Therefore,
any commandment that Paul gave to believers (at any time and any place, as
per your stated Rule of Audience) should be regarded in the same context as
the verses cited above; i.e., linked to salvation.

Now let's suppose for the sake of argument that you don't greet your fellow
Christians with a holy kiss (you could substitute anointing the sick with
oil or any of the previous "difficult" commandments).  This was, of course,
a commandment Paul gave to believers in Romans 16:16.  We can restate Jn
14:15 (for example) as, "If ye love me, greet one another with a holy kiss."
Now, (for the sake of argument), let's suppose that you have (wisely, if
anyone's asking me) made the decision not to comply with this commandment.
Let's further suppose that you have good justification for non-compliance
(my justification for non-compliance seemed good to me).  This seems to
imply to me that you will see death (will not have eternal life) (a), you do
not love Jesus (b and c), and you will not abide in Jesus' love (d).
Frankly, I see no provision in the above verses from John that enable one to
avoid tasting death etc. if one has satisfactory justification for
non-compliance.  After all, Jesus didn't say, "If ye love me, keep my
commandments, yea, verily, each and every one of them excepting those thou
findest offensive to thine sensibilities or inappropriate in thy
social/cultural context."  It seems to me that unless you start puckering up
every Sunday, you're between the devil and the deep blue sea ;-)

Your answer thus raises more questions where I'm concerned:  how do you
define "chastisement", and how do you defend the view that this chastisement
would be something short of rejection, in view of the linking of observing
Jesus' commandments to love (your love for Jesus and vice versa) and not
tasting death?  By the way, I've read Hebrews 12:1-13, and I'm not sure how
helpful or relevant it is.  Even if the discipline referred to in those
verses is the result of not keeping Jesus' commandments, it would seem
difficult to reconcile this concept (discipline, not rejection, for not
keeping Jesus' commandments) with the verses I cited.

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