Farrell Should Be More Skeptical!!
Farrell Till jftill@midwest.net
Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:24:13 -0800 (00917835853, 2.2.32.19990131202413.0088d34c@midwest.net)
At 08:47 AM 1/31/99 -0000, Matthew Bell wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> TILL
>> I live only 70 miles from Carthage, IL, where Joseph Smith was jailed and
>> lynched. I have twice taken the guided tour, and the guides, who are
>> admittedly Mormons, claimed that the gun was an invention of those who
>> wanted to smear the Mormons.
>
>Matthew Bell
>Next time you go give them the following reference and ask them if they still
>want to take that position:
>
>History of the Church Vol.6, pp.617-618
>
>'Immediately there was a little rustling at the outer door of the jail, and a
>cry of surrender, and also a discharge of three or four firearms followed
>instantly......Joseph sprang to his coat for his six-shooter, Hyrum for his
>single barrel,...
> When Hyrum fell, Joseph exclaimed, 'Oh dear, brother Hyrum!' and opening the
>door a few inches he discharged his six-shooter in the stairway (as stated
>before), two or three barrels of which missed fire.
> "Joseph seeing there was no safety in the room, and no doubt thinking that it
>would save the lives of his brethren in the room if he could get out, turned
>calmly from the door, dropped his pistol on the floor, and sprang into the
>window when two balls pierced him from the door, and one entered his right
>breast from without, and he fell outward into the hands of his murderers,
>exclaiming, 'O Lord, my God.!' (Quoted from Mormonism; Shadow or Reality,
>Jerald and Sandra Tanner, p259).
>
>Also the following taken from the Tanners:
>
>'In the Introduction to Vol.6 of the History of the Church, page XLI, the
>following is stated about Joseph Smith's death: 'When the jail in Carthage was
>assailed, and the mob was pouring murderous volleys into the room occupied by
>himself and and friends, the Prophet turned from the prostrate form of his
>murdered brother to face death-dealing guns and bravely returned the fire of
>his assailants, bringing his man down every time, and compelling even John Hay,
>who but reluctantly accords the Prophet any quality of virtue, to confess that
>he made a handsome fight'...."
>
>And finally again from the History of the Church Vol.7, pp.100-103:
>
>'Elder Cyrus H.Wheelock came into to see us, and when he was about leaving he
>drew a small pistol, a six-shooter, from his pocket, remarking at the same
>time, 'Would any of you like to have this?' Brother Joseph immediately replied,
>'Yes, give it to me,' whereupon he took the pistol, and put it in his
>pantaloons pocket......I was sitting at one of the front windows of the jail,
>when I saw a number of men, with painted faces, coming around the corner of the
>jail, and aiming towards the stairs....
> "I shall never forget the deep feeling of sympathy and regard manifested in
>the countenance of Brother Joseph as he drew nigh to Hyrum, and, leaning over
>him, exclaimed, 'Oh! my poor, dear brother Hyrum!' He, however, instantly
>arose, and with a firm, quick step, and a determined expresion of countenance,
>approached the door, and pulling the six shooter left by Brother Wheelock from
>his pocket, opened the door slightly, and snapped the pistol six successive
>times: only three of the barrels, however were discharged, I afterwards
>understood that two of the three were wounded by these discharges, two of whom,
>I am informed died.' (Quoted from Mormonism-Shadow or Reality by Jerald and
>Sandra Tanner, p259).
>
>Perhaps you should be more Skeptical about the words of Carthage's Mormon
>guides :)
>
TILL
Did you notice that I pointed out that the guides were "admittedly Mormons"?
I would think that you would have recognized that I was warning that this
could be biased reporting of what happened. On that subject, is it not true
that Jerald and Sandra Tanner are ex-Mormons who have become zealous
debunkers of Mormonism? I seem to recall that they are. If I am right,
then some of the things that you have said about me (ex-preacher turned
debunker of biblical inerrancy) should apply to the Tanners, shouldn't it?
If not, why not? In other words, if, as you have intimated at times, Till
can't be trusted because he has an axe to grind, wouldn't the same principle
apply to the Tanners?
Farrell Till
Skepticism, Inc.
jftill@midwest.net