"Proveall"? RE: God's Word? #15 - Perfect heaven

errancy@infidels.org errancy@infidels.org
Sun, 8 Aug 1999 02:14:15 EDT (00934110855, 5089690.24de7a37@aol.com) 

From:  David Race
To:      David Court


In a message dated 8/7/99 5:23:41 PM EDT, gcsm@sheridan-nurseries.com writes:

<< 
 > Question            15).  Heaven is supposed to be a perfect
 > place.  Yet, it
 > experienced a war(Rev.12:7).  How can there be a war in a perfect
 > place and
 > if it happened before why couldn’t it happen again?
 
 (DAVE 8/7)  Your argument is based on the fact that you are making the
 assumption there can be no war in a perfect place.  My questions to you are
 this (since you are using Scripture to invalidate itself):
 
    Where in Scripture does it state that "heaven is perfect" (as you have
 stated above)?
    WHere in Scripture does it say that heaven "was perfect" before any war 
(as
 you have stated)?
    Most importantly, where does it state that being "perfect" means no wars?
 
 Your argument begins on an extremely false premise - you are misrepresenting
 the Scriptures making the rest of your post invalid.  I trust all your other
 "proofs" you have filled everyone's mailbanks with have more validity then
 this one.
 
 Regards.
 
 Dave
  >>

Race:

Dave,  I did not originate the question you were referring to.  It was one of 
many items found on a tract distributed by a homosexual atheist.  I wrote 
responses to all of the items on that tract.  I recently posted each of them 
on this list for the benefit of some and the annoyance of others.  Here is my 
response that I gave to #15:

Answer            15).  Maybe the writer has never looked up the word heaven. 
 Webster’s 1828 defines heaven as, "1.  The region or expanse which surrounds 
the earth, and which appears above and around us, like an immense arch or 
vault, in which are seen the sun, moon and stars.  2.  Among christians, the 
part of space in which the omnipresent Jehovah is supposed to afford more 
sensible manifestations of his glory.  Hence this is called the habitation of 
God, and is represented as the residence of angels and blessed spirits. …4.  
The sky or air; the region of the atmosphere; or an elevated place; in a very 
indefinite sense.  Thus we speak of a mountain reaching to heaven; the fowls 
of the heaven; the clouds of heaven; hail or rain from heaven.  5.  The 
Hebrews acknowledged three heavens; the air or aerial heavens; the firmament 
in which the stars are supposed to be placed; and the heaven of heavens, or 
third heaven, the residence of Jehovah".  II Corinthians 12:2 speaks of one 
being caught up to the third heaven.  The heaven spoken of in Rev.12:7 is not 
talking about the place of the manifested glory of God, or the third heaven, 
but of either the stellar or atmospheric heaven.  Maybe the writer has not 
read Revelation 21:4,8,27/22:15 in which only those whose names are in the 
book of life shall enter the New Jerusalem in conjunction with a new 
heaven(atmosphere, space) and earth.  Corruption or defilement will not be 
possible.

Thank you