(who was Jesus) wasRoman records
Ed Tyler errancy@infidels.org
Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:42:15 -0500 (00924655335, 4.1.19990420144046.00b93b60@pop.truman.edu)
At 07:19 PM 4/20/99 +0000, Joseph Crea wrote:
>Hello, Ed and Derek!
>
>At 11:19 AM 4/20/99 -0500, you wrote:
>>At 10:37 AM 4/20/99 -0400, Derek Pomery wrote:
>>>> J.
>>>> >Following is another tidbit that shows something was a little off
kilter,
>>>it
>>>> >seems
>>>> >that the good savior died long before the other two.
>>>> >One might make a prophesy that if resurrected he could not walk away
with
>>>two
>>>> >broken legs.
>>>> >
>>>> >TEXT
>>>> >19:31 The Jews, therefore, that the bodies might not remain on the
>>cross on
>>>> >the sabbath, since it was the preparation, (for that sabbath day was a
>>>great
>>>> >one,) asked of Pilate that their legs may be broken, and they taken away.
>>>> >19:32 The soldiers, therefore, came, and of the first indeed they did
>>break
>>>> >the legs, and of the other who was crucified with him,
>>>> >19:33 and having come to Jesus, when they saw him already having been
>>dead,
>>>> >they did not break his legs;
>>>>
>>>> Ed
>>>>
>>>> Again, you're begging the question of the historicity of the gospels. Who
>>>> says that they didn't break Jesus' legs? Only the gospels. It seems
>>>> obvious that the narrative element you cite was the product of "prophecy
>>>> historicized." John has invented this element so that he can claim that
>>>> the crucifixion fulfilled the prophecy that no bone of the Messiah
would be
>>>> broken.
>>>
>>>DEREK
>>>The scripture referred to is in Exodus I believe, correct? Therfore, it
>>>is a bit of a stretch already to connect the rule about not cracking open
>>>the bones of the passover lamb (to get at the marrow?) with the Messiah.
>>>And let's not forget the lamb is to be utterly burned by morning. I would
>>>have been interested in seeing the explanation for that bit's fulfillment.
>>
>>Ed
>>
>>There are three passages that could be the source of this attribution:
>>Exodus 12:46, to which you refer, prohibits the breaking of the paschal
>>lamb's bones, as does Numbers 9:12. The obvious connection John would be
>>making with these allusions would be that of Christ as Passover sacrifice.
>>
>>A third possible source for the allusion is Psalm 34:20, which tells of
>>YHWH's care for the "Righteous Sufferer": "He (YHWH) guards every bone of
>>his body, not one of them is broken."
>
>CREA
> And let's not forget what was one of the major "messianic prophecies" so
>often cited by Xians: Psalms 22 -- in particular verse 17 where it is read
>to say that the Messiah "can count all my bones".
>
Ed
One of the best instances going of "prophecy historicized," replete with
the shady translation of verse 16.