[Fwd: (Ron) Spiritual Consciousness - was Re: (Ron) Natural Man]
Brian Dean bridean@worldnet.att.net
Sun, 27 Sep 1998 12:29:53 -0400 (00906931793, 360E6800.DA3D4657@worldnet.att.net)
> >> >> RON
> >> >> Buddhist's DO have a pre-conceived notion concerning God - they
> >> >> believe that deities of any sort are simply part of the illusory
> natural
> >> >> world. Therefore if they were to experience any sort of vision of
> God
> >> >> that would contradict their paradigm they would dismiss it as
> irrelevent
> >> >> or halucinatory.
> >> ACHILLES
> >> I am not at all certain that you are correct here, but I will state
> that I
> >> think you at least are answering in good faith, and that your
> response
> >> indicates you have actually taken the time to educate yourself a bit
> and
> >> consider some views different from yours, which speaks strongly in
> your favour.
> >>
> >> Would not a Xtian mystic, however, who experienced a vision of Vishnu
> or
> >> Šiva, dismiss it in a similar way? That is, if it were not simply
> >> misinterpreted as a vision of "the Lord?" Would not a Xtian
> experiencing a
> >> vision of the Tai Ji ("supreme ultimate") simply interpret such a
> vision,
> >> however much violence such an interpretation might do to the glory of
> the
> >> original vision, to fit his predetermined belief system?
> >>
> >> RON
> >> >> By the way, let me point out that Christian mystics who
> >> >> practice the methods of the ancient monks and contemplatives do
> not
> >> >> actively seek visions.
> >> ACHILLES
> >> Nor the best I can understand from reading their writings do Moslem,
> Sikh,
> >> or Buddhist monastics "seek visions."
> >>
>
*snip*
> RON
> As fars as God revealing Himself to people of other religions I can
> relate one very obvious case. When Eastern Orthodox missionaries arrived
> in the Pacific Northwest they discovered a native shaman who said that
> this was the God he communicated with and that he had been ministered to
> by angels. There is also the case of the altar inscribed to the Unknown
> God mentioned in the Acts (Acts 17:16-34) which was confirmed by Paul as
> representing the same God. So the Scriptures confirm the possibility of
> worshipping God without prior knowledge of Christianity.
> Concerning the reliability of angelic messengers the scripture relates
> that Satan often appears as an "angel of light". Elsewhere it says to
> "test the spirits" to determine if they are of God. Since the Christian
> mystic's goal is union with God, not pyrotechnics and visions, the
> Church Fathers and the Fathers and Mothers of the Desert recommended
> that such visions be accepted with a healthy suspicion, especially by
> neophytes who might be more likely to be tempted by pride and
> temptation. Many of the tales and sayings of the Desert Fathers concern
> this subject. One of the texts on them is the Paradise of the Fathers. I
> don't know if it can be found on the internet, but I'm pretty sure the
> copyright would have expired by now (heh, heh!).
> As to other religions; I am particularly interested in Sikhism and
> Islam. The main sticking point I have with Sikhism (and Hinduism) is
> that it is monistic. If we are really part of God and suffer from
> ignorance, then wouldn't that mean that their God is in some respect
> ignorant? As for Islam, although I appreciate its aesthetic and
> understanding of the all-comprehensive nature of God, I simply am not
> convinced of its authenticity. I wish the Artist Formerly Known as Cat
> Stevens would write a book explaining his conversion process in detail
> (catstevens.com has an article about his conversion). I especially
> appreciate and enjy the study of Sufism.
> Concerning the process the Church goes through in acceptance of
> particular visions or apparitions I don't know of any particular sites
> that deal with this. But there probably are some dealing with officialy
> sanctioned apparition sites of Fatima and Lourdes.
> Sorry if I called you an atheist. I was generalizing. Do you consider
> yourself an agnostic or what?
>
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