(Ron) Natural Man
Helen Willis hhiwater@BRIGHT.NET
Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:44:54 -0700 (00905921094, 35FEFBF6.29B8@bright.net)
WBERNE@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 98-09-15 15:59:50 EDT, you write:
>
> << >
> > >Uh huh.
> > >
> > >I don't suppose you have any suggestions about how to tell the
> > difference
> > >between revelation, trickery, and the imagination (self-trickery, I
> > guess)?
> > >
> > >Jeff
> > >
> > >
> > RON
> > Well, it helps to have an experienced spiritual director, like a
> > staretz in eastern Christian mysticism. But those are few and far
> > between. The truly experienced ones I mean. You can find plenty of flaky
> > new-age types even within the Catholic Church, who haven't got a clue.
> > But the best practice is to test the spirits. Have a healthy, but open
> > scepticism. Realize that you CAN be tricked by your Self and evil
> > spirits. Don't accept visions, messages or pyrotechnics without official
> > (Church) corroboration. That's not the purpose of contemplation. And
> > look for the fruits of the Spirit (Galatiians 5:22), and an increased
> > consciousness of reality and the presence of God. That's what it's all
> > about.
> >
> > Berne
> >
> > As far as testing spirits, I have been hearing and seeing spirits since
> July
> > of 1987. They demanded that I accept the bible as the truth (and I hadn't
> > read it yet) and become a Christian. They wanted me to accept rape,
> torture,
> > and eating of people as a way of life and to bless it, and I wouldn't
> accept
> > it, and I didn't believe that they were from the God of the bible or Jesus.
> > Then finally, I was able to read the bible, and it confirmed that what they
> > wanted is no different than what is revealed in the bible. I still hear
> them
> > and see them all the time, but now I simply tell them to go to hell. What
> > would have you done Ron if it had have been you, would you have accepted
> their
> > ways, after all their ways are confirmed in the bible, if you had, you
> would
> > have ended up dead, in jail, or in an institution for life.
> > ______________________________________________________
>
> HELEN:
> They have pills to help you get over those visions. Pure OT prophets had to
> endure them without help.
> Helen
> hhiwater@bright.net
>
> >>
> Berne
>
> I have been enduring this for 11 years and nothing has helped. I hear, see,
> and feel spirits. I does make it hard to concentrate, and sleep. Just think
> a few thousand years ago I might have been an OT prophet, but I doubt it. I
> would have been called a false prophet and stoned to death. This was just to
> tell Ron that spirits can't be trusted, even if they demand that the bible is
> true and demand that you become a Christian. By the way they all claim to be
> almighty. Maybe thats what YWHW did.
HELEN:
Berne, if you are truly psychotic then you have as much sympathy from me as
any other chronic suffer of a horrid disease. My suspicious is that what you
suffer from is some kind of organic brain disease. I have read of some
spontaneous remissions from your condition as from some cancers and MS.
Gentle exercise (walking) and general healthy living are supposed to increase
the chances of this happening and certainly wouldn't hurt. I gather you feel
that many of the biblical visions are much like psychotic visions. You would
apparently be an expert on this. Which ones seem the most like psychosis to
you? Ezekiel and Revelations would be my bet. May I ask, if you have ever
done LSD? If so, how close is psychosis to the experiences induced by that
drug?
I hope my questions don't embarress you,
Helen
hhiwater@bright.net