errancy galore (redux)
Joseph Crea Joseph.Crea@worldnet.att.net
Sat, 24 Oct 1998 06:27:59 +0000 (00909228479, 19981024062759.JPXS13024@LOCALNAME)
Hello again, Farrell!
At 09:05 PM 10/22/98 -0700, Farrell Till wrote:
>At 10:30 PM 10/22/98 +0000, Joseph Crea wrote:
>>At 04:45 PM 10/22/98 -0700, Farrell Till wrote:
>>>At 07:44 PM 10/22/98 +0000, Joseph Crea wrote:
>>>
>>>>CREA
>>>> A brief addendum to the above. Peter Beckmann's __History of Pi__,
>>>>states that as late as the 5th century CE, the Hebrews believed that pi = 3
>>>>and offers as evidence a citation from the Talmud which goes as follows:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "...that which in circumference is three hands broad is one hand broad".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>CREA
>>>> Hope that this helps.
>>>>
>>>
>>>TILL
>>>Would you happen to know where this statement is in the Talmud or on what
>>>page of Beckmann's book this was quoted?
>>
>>
>>CREA
>> Beckmann (curse him!) fails to give a reference to any specific location
>>in the Talmud for his citation. However his citation occurs on page 15 of
>>his __History of Pi__ (St. Martin's Press/Golem Press, 1971, ISBN
>>0-312-38185-9) where he says [referring to the molten sea description at 1
>>Kings 7:23 & 2 Chronicles 4:2]:
>>
>>
>> "The Book of Kings was edited by the ancient Jews as a religious work
>>around 550 B.C., but its sources date back several centuries. At that time,
>>pi was already known to a considerably better accuracy, but evidently not to
>>the editors of the Bible. The Jewish Talmud, which is essentially a
>>commentary on the Old Testament, was published [!] about 500 A.D. Even at
>>this late date it also states "that which in circumference is three hands
>>broad is one hand broad".
>>
>>CREA
>> More ammunition for the continuing battle, Farrell?
>>
>
>TILL
>Doesn't it annoy the hell out of you when a writer does this? Here is a
>valuable quotation (if it is true), but it is unusable until the primary
>source is known.
CREA
Of course it annoys the hell out me -- it annoyed me sufficiently that
I hit the 'Net and did about 2 hours worth of searching for that elusive
citation. And I finally got lucky!
Turns out that it's actually from the Mishnah, not the Talmud proper.
In the "Artscroll Mishnah Series" from Mesorah Publications, it occurs in
their volume 1(b) __Seder Moed: Eruvin, Beitzah__ (Mesorah Publications,
1981, ISBN 0899062628) on page 23. Since there are several translations of
the Mishnah currently in print, one wouldn't have to use the Mesorah version
-- Oxford has at least one translation, and I hear that Jacob Neusner has a
newer rendition available. Hope that this helps.
With Mettaa,
Joseph Crea
<Joseph.Crea@worldnet.att.net>