Alward's Confused
Joseph Crea Joseph.Crea@worldnet.att.net
Thu, 22 Oct 1998 01:21:59 +0000 (00909037319, 19981022012158.NBBQ27060@LOCALNAME)
Hello again, Joe!
At 06:17 PM 10/21/98 EDT, JAlw@aol.com wrote:
>Joe Alward:
>
> On a related matter, let me ask about the use of the words "did so". I could
>be completely wrong about this, but it seems that Farrell was making the point
>that the magicians "did so" with their enchantments meant that they did
>everything Moses had done with his rod waving and water conversion. Now, it
>seems that "did so" in the lice story only meant that the magicians had waved
>their rods in an attempt to match Aaron's magic. Since they failed, doesn't
> that mean that "did so" in the lice plague story only meant "waved their rods
> like Aaron did"? If so, then how can we be sure that "did so" in the blood
> plague story meant "did everything that Moses did"? We're not told the
>result
> of the magicians' rod waving, so aren't we left somewhat in the dark? Or is
> my confusion purely the result of consulting a flawed Strongs translation?
>=================
>Farrell Till:
>
> <Alward snips important comments he'll think about later>
>
> I have checked different translations of verse 18 and found entirely
> different renderings from the KJV's "did so with their enchantments."
>
><snip five translations which show that the magicians "tried to bring forth
>lice">
>
> Other versions also render the verse to mean that the magicians tried but
> failed, so surely there is a textual reason for this translation. An
> identical expression in two verses of an English translation doesn't
> necessarily mean that the expressions were identical in the original, and
> that appears to be the case here.
>==================
>Joe Alward:
>
>My lack of understanding of the origins of the various translations cause me
>to be suspicious, I guess. It is hard for me to accept (blame it on naivete,
>I suppose) that the exact same expression in English in the blood and lice
>stories, "and the magicians did so with their enchantments", did not have
>exactly the same Hebrew to back it up, especially given that the verses are so
>close together in Exodus.
>
>Believing as I do that, say, that the NIV is a politically correct KJV whose
>translators arbitrarily removed some embarrassing errors, I have to wonder
>whether the translators of the versions Farrell cites were just being
>expedient. Did the translators recognize the questions that would be raised
>by readers who would wonder whether the magicians succeeded with the blood
>plague, and therefore they arbitrarily decided to remove the ambiguity by
>restructuring the words in the lice story?
>
>In summary, let me just ask this: Is is generally accepted that the correct
>translation of the lice story is "tried to do so with their enchantments", and
>not "did so"?
CREA
I'm afraid so. Here's a transliteration of the Hebrew for Exodus 8:14
(in the Masoretic text -- that would be Exodus 8:18 in the various English
translations) without the vowel pointings which were a later addition, along
with a rough but literal interlinear rendition:
[8:14] WAW-YOD-AYIN-SHIN-ZAYIN KOPH-NUN HEH-CHETH-RESH-SAMEKH-MIM-YOD-MIM
BUT-DID THE-SAME THE-MAGICIANS
[8:14] BETH-LAMED-SAMEKH-YOD-HEH-MIM LAMED-HEH-WAW-TSADE-YOD-ALEPH
WITH-THEIR-SECRET-ARTS TO-BRING-FORTH
[8:14] ALEPH-TAU HEH-KOPH-NUN-YOD-MIM
D.O. marker THE-GNATS/LICE
[8:14] WAW-LAMED-ALEPH YOD-KOPH-LAMED-ZAYIN
BUT-NOT [THEY] WERE-ABLE/HAD-POWER
[8:14] WAW-TAU-HEH-YOD HEH-KOPH-NUN-YOD-MIM BETH-ALEPH-DALETH-MIM
AND-THERE-WERE THE-GNATS/LICE ON-MAN
[8:14] WAW-BETH-BETH-HEH-MIM-HEH
AND-ON-BEASTS
CREA
Hope that this helps.
With Mettaa,
Joseph Crea
<Joseph.Crea@worldnet.att.net>