*Alward: Matthew 1:17

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----- Original Message -----
From: <JAlw@aol.com>
To: <errancy@infidels.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 1998 5:23 PM
Subject: *Alward: Matthew 1:17




Joe Alward:

Ok.  I numbered the fourteens differently; I left Jeconias off the end of the
second set, thereby permitting inclusive counting, and put Jeconias at the
beginning of the third set, also permitting inclusive counting.


I count Josiah as end of the set of fourteen that just preceded the exile,
while Jeconias marks the beginning of the exile.

DAVE MOONEY
    Joe, I have just visited your site again and it needs a lot of re-working on
the "three days and three nights" issue. I will point out some things for your
benefit as I realize you're new to this. Since you are using my name in your
site I find it important to point these things out to you. I am really concerned
that some inerrantist will stumble upon this and have a field day with the
"scholarship" behind it. You need to check up on what I say and don't just take
my word for it. For all you know I may just be lying to prove a point. Well
anyway, here goes with some constructive criticism.

  1) Under scenario #1 you mention the sabbath referred to in Mark 14:42. It is
not 14:42 but 15:42.
  2) In the first chart under second day N1 should be Thursday night and under
third day N2 should be Friday night. Under fourth day N3 should be Saturday
night.
  3) I do not provide four dozen examples of the use of *apo*. I merely state I
found 61 references in the KJV where *apo* was used in reference to a series.
Only a few of those have reference to days.
  4) Under scenario #2 Herbert W. Armstrong said Jesus rose Saturday
*afternoon*, just before sunset, NOT Saturday night. That would be another day
and a "first day of the week" resurrection which HWA did not belive in.
   5) In the chart you provide in this scenario N1 should read Wednesday night,
N2 Thursday night and N3 Friday night.
  6) Keep in mind that HWA *did* assert Jesus rose on the third day *after* his
death. Saturday afternoon *was* the third day after Wednesday. HWA quoted Mark
8:31, 9:31 and 10:34 for this "proof".
  7) Under scenario #3 it should not read "rising at sundown at the end of
Friday" but "Saturday, the end of the sabbath". You are getting your days mixed
up. BTW, Dr. John R. Rice, founder of *Sword of the Lord* and editor of the
*Rice Study Bible* was an advocate of the Wednesday crucifixion, but unlike
Armstrong, still believed Jesus rose from the dead on the first day of the week.
This wreaks havoc with the "third day" passages, but tht goes with the
territory. Rice believed Jesus rose sometime Saturday night, shortly past
sunset. Just some added info for your benefit.
  8) On the chart under the scenario #3 listing D1 should be Thursday day, D2
should be Friday day and D3 should be Saturday day. Jesus rises at the end of
SATURDAY, not FRIDAY (acc. to Armstrong) and at the END of the sabbath, not the
BEGINNING. Of course Dr. Rice put it in Saturday night, the beginning of the
first day of the week.
  9) The third day does NOT count from his entombment, but from his crucifixion
and death (Matthew 16:21). The Wednesday defenders *claim* it was from his
burial (1 Cor 15:4) and show that when he was buried it was sunset, the
beginning of Nisan 15 (Luke 23:54). However, if this is true, it wreaks havoc
with the claims of Jesus who said he would rise from the dead on the third day
of his death (which is confirmed by the disciples in Luke 24:21). So either way
they lose.
10) Under scenario #4, if I understand you correctly you are offering a
variation of the Wednesday crucifixion theory. If that is the case, your opening
paragraph should read Jesus was buried right at sundown at the start of
Wednesday evening. I don't see how it avoids the problem of the Friday visit to
the tomb, which remains. (Unless this is the Thursday view you are advancing).
11) You also confuse Nisan 15 with the "Passover". Neither Wednesday nor
Thursday proponents claim the "great sabbath" that was approaching was the
Passover. Jesus died on the Passover. The day that followed is claimed to be a
sabbath (Nisan 15). See Leviticus 23 in its entirety. You will see that there
are seven annual holy days mentioned. Nisan 15 and Nisan 21 are two of them.
Neither are called a sabbath. The only holy days called sabbaths in the Old
Testament are those that occurred in the *seventh* month. Read it for yourself.
The seventh day of the week is "the" sabbath (i.e. the REST). The three holy
days in the seventh month are each called "a" sabbath (i.e. a REST).
12) In your entire essay on this topic you totally ignore the most common of all
defenses to this problem. That is simply this: "the expression 'three days and
three nights' is simply a Jewish figure of speech". In other words, the Jews
called *any* part of a day, no matter how small, a "day and a night".  You
should offer a refutation to this view because the majority of inerrantists that
visit your site will be of this persuasion or will encounter it from thier
pastors.
    Hope this helps,
Dave Mooney

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