*Alward: Consequences of Verbal Inspiration (to Till)
JAlw@aol.com JAlw@aol.com
Thu, 12 Nov 1998 01:21:49 EST (00910873309, 284aa945.364a7e7d@aol.com)
In a message dated 98-11-12 01:08:26 EST, you write:
<< Subj: Re: *Alward: Consequences of Verbal Inspiration
Date: 98-11-12 01:08:26 EST
From: jftill@midwest.net (Farrell Till)
Sender: owner-errancy@infidels.org
To: errancy@infidels.org
At 09:29 PM 11/11/98 EST, JAlw@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 98-11-11 19:38:12 EST, you write:
>
><< Subj: Re: The Consequences of Verbal Inspiration
> Date: 98-11-11 19:38:12 EST
> From: jftill@midwest.net (Farrell Till)
> Sender: owner-errancy@infidels.org
> To: errancy@infidels.org
>
> At 03:28 PM 11/11/98 EST, ChasKlu@aol.com wrote:
> >In a message dated 11/10/98 8:40:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> >jftill@midwest.net writes:
> >
> ><< None of this,
> > however, negates the fact that the Bible teaches that when God inspired
> > individuals, he put his words in their mouths, >>
> >
> >Charlie
> >I had thought that the best that the inerrantists could come up with even
in
> >the bible to support inerrancy was
> > 2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching,
> > for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
> >
> >Where in the Bible does it teach "that when God inspired individuals, he
put
> >his words in their mouth?"
> >
>
> TILL
> Didn't you read my four postings entitled "Understanding Biblical
> Inerrancy"? Your question is answered in them.
> ===================
>Joe Alward:
>
>I read the first two postins, but I didn't see where the bible teaches that
>the bible writers had no choice in the words they used, that God put the
words
>in the mouth of the writer of every verse.
TILL
Did you by chance see my argument that a deity who would put his very words
into the mouths of apostles that were brought before kings and rulers would
surely do no less than this in guiding them when they wrote what was
allegedly the "word of God" intended to guide mankind throughout the
Christian era? If not, you may want to go back and read it and then give us
a logical explanation for why "God" would have put his very words into the
mouths of the apostles when they spoke before tribunals but wouldn't have
bothered to so direct them when they were writing books intended to guide
Christians through the entire Christian era.
Better yet, Joe, why don't you take my postings on this subject and reply to
them point by point and show where I erred in my reasoning? Until you do
that, I won't bother to respond to anything that you post on this subject.
ALWARD
> Charlie, if you find the reference in Till's works, would you please let
me know?
>
TILL
There is no such passage in the Bible, but I contend that this conclusion is
logically necessary from the arguments that I presented in my postings.
That's why I'm challenging you to respond to them point by point and show
that my arguments are fallacious.
Anyway, it's almost ludicrous for Joe Alward to be demanding a specific
biblical statement that God verbally inspired the entire Bible after he has
spent so much time posting ludicrous biblical "harmonizations" based on pure
speculation.
=================
Joe Alward:
Before I received the post above, I had already sent another one commenting on
Till's argument. Perhaps that post (reprinted below) will serve as a better
starting point than the brief comment I made above. I will wait to hear if I
should expand my comments, or first see Till's comments.
Reprinted Post: *Alward: Till's Argument on Verbal Inspiration
Joe Alward:
As far as I can see, Till, shows conclusively that some writers on some
occasions did have God's words put in their mouths.
Till presents ample evidence that Yahweh literally put words in the mouth of
Isaiah and Jeremiah, and other evidence that they, along with Ezekiel, Jonah,
Hosea, Micah, and Joel, said that the word of God "came to them". He further
shows that there are hundreds of OT references to "the word of Yahweh" coming
to the writer. Moses, too, said he wrote down the words of Yahweh. Thus,
Till makes a convincing case that ". . . the OT writers thought that they were
speaking and writing the very words of Yahweh." It is clear, then, that some
passages in the OT were dictated by Yahweh.
But, what about the other passages? If Till's analysis is as thorough as we've
all come to expect (I'll assume that it is), then there does not seem to exist
any evidence that these writers did not also write other things which which
were not God's very words. If this evidence does not exist, it would seem
that errantists cannot make a strong case that inerrantists are compelled to
believe every word in the bible came straight from the lips of god. If
inerrantists don't HAVE to believe that every word came straight from god,
then they have the right to suppose that certain verses might not have been
perfectly communications from god.