Done with you Re: *Alward: Re: Mary's Genealogy (to Joe)
Helen Willis hhiwater@BRIGHT.NET
Wed, 04 Nov 1998 21:08:55 -0800 (00910264135, 364132E7.1014@bright.net)
JAlw@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 98-11-04 17:52:23 EST, you write:
>
> << Subj: Re: Mary's Genealogy (to Joe)
> Date: 98-11-04 17:52:23 EST
> From: hhiwater@BRIGHT.NET (Helen Willis)
> Sender: owner-errancy@infidels.org
> To: errancy@infidels.org
>
> JAlw@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Joe Alward:
> > > There is no evidence that Mary was a descendant of David, but there is
> > > substantial evidence that she was a member of a completely separate
> > > line, a descendant of Levi, the great-grandfather of Aaron and Moses.
> > > That evidence comes from the pen of Luke, who wrote that Elisabeth, who
> > > was a daughter of Aaron, was the cousin of Mary. Here is the story:
> > >
> > > After telling Mary that the Holy Ghost would cause the virgin Mary to
> > > conceive Jesus, he also tells her that he had already done something
> > > similar for her cousin:
> > >
> > > "There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest
> > > named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the
> > > daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. (Luke 1:5)....And,
> > > behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old
> > > age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren."(Luke
> > > 1:36)
> > >
> > > There is other information that points to bible error, but I won't
> mention
> > it
> > > here; it's in the essay.
> > >
> > > Joe Alward
> >
> > All that Elisabeth being a daughter of Arron would mean was that she
> > descended from Arron on her father's side, there was no requirement that
> her
> > mother descend from Arron, so if Mary and her were cousin on Elisabeth's
> > mother's side there would be no need to conclude that Mary descended from
> > Arron, Moreover, there is no requirement a daughter of Arron has to marry
> a
> > Cohen (son of Arron), so if Elizabeth father's sister had married a non
> > Cohen, and Mary had come from this union then Mary would not be a daughter
> of
> > Arron and if the Luke genealogy is of Mary's father family which is what
> is
> > generally argued then it still would not be from Arron. Joe, there are far
> > greater problems here and Till is probably the man to cover them. Once
> more
> > you are shooting your mouth off on things you just don't know enough to
> speak
> > on.
> >
> > ===============
> > Joe Alward:
> >
> > Of course, "there would be no need to conclude that Mary descended from
> > Arron", as you say. I never suggested that we should CONCLUDE anything;
> all
> > I said was that "there was substantial EVIDENCE". Prior to your receiving
> > your post, I modified my essay to read "there is some evidence"
>
> HELEN:
> Joe there is little reason to believe Mary would be a daughter of Aaron. She
> would only be a daughter of Aaron if her father was a son of Aaron and her
> mother was a Jewish woman of good repute that had never been married before.
> We are told that her cousin was a daughter of Aaron but this would only
> suggest Mary was a daughter of Aaron if she and Elisabeth were cousin because
> their fathers were brothers.....and then Mary's mother could not have been a
> widow or a divorced women and would have to have been born Jewish, not a
> covert, and be of good repute. If all this requirements are not met then
> Mary would be just a Jewish woman. This is a bogus problem with the text you
> are arguing here, OK.
> ================
> Joe Alward:
>
> You haven't rebutted my statement that there "is some evidence" that Mary was
> Levitic; you've just shown the conditions under which she would not have been
> Levitic. You haven't shown ANY evidence that she was Davidic. I have given
> "some" evidence for my position, you have given none for yours.
HELEN:
There is no evidence on Mary's genealogy, period. For all the NT tells us her
father could have been Elisabeth's father's brother by a second non Jewish
wife and her mother could have been a non Jew so then Mary was born non
Jewish and converted. (Levy and Cohen are separate priestly castes by the
way.) The NT makes no reference to her heritage at all. Some my cousins were
born of a Mormon father. Some of my cousins were raised Catholic. Some of my
cousins were born of a Quaker father. There is nothing in any of this that in
anyway indicates that I am Mormon, Quaker, or Catholic. In truth, I am none
of these things. All of our mothers were of a Unitarian/atheist family and my
father was Episcopal, which is what I was raised. There is no evidence at all
on Mary's position within the Jewish community at birth. There is a great
deal of evidence that the genealogy in Luke is for Joseph and that it is
different from Matthew's (who couldn't count generations by the way) and that
neither could be for the supposed OT's Messiah.
You are posting a major non argument. I done with wasting my time with you.
Helen
hhiwater@bright.net