Topics (was Re: H2O versus AB Negative)

ChasKlu@aol.com ChasKlu@aol.com
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:05:22 EST (00910134322, 3ca10a54.363f37d2@aol.com) 

In a message dated 11/3/98 12:00:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, JAlw@aol.com
writes:

<< In a message dated 98-11-02 23:34:42 EST, you write:
 
 << Subj:	 RE: H2O versus AB Negative
  Date:	98-11-02 23:34:42 EST
  From:	thebachs@fgi.net (eric/cindy bach)
  Sender:	owner-errancy@infidels.org
  To:	errancy@infidels.org (Errancy)
  
  from Bach
  Is there any list protocol regarding when one side or the other may
 reasonably end the debate and call for the question? (I think that's the term
 they used in Roberts Rules of Order.)
  
  I have waded through so many posts on this thread for so long that my eyes
 are now both bloodshot and watery!  I have had a wonderful time and learned a
 great deal, but aren't there 66 books in the bible?  Aren't there 33,000 or
 more verses and a million words or so? 
  I've only been on the list a couple of months, but at this rate, I'm afraid
 that I may not live to see the 10th plague, let alone Leviticus.
  I know there are 130 or so of us, but couldn't we possibly either agree to
 disagree, or take a vote (ala the Jesus Seminar?), or something.....and then
 move on to something else, please?    
  Just a thought.......
  Bones Bach
  thebachs@fgi.net
  
 =================
 Joe Alward:
 
 I'd be happy to discuss other allegations of error.  Pick one of the other
 nine plagues; I'm sure other members would be happy to discuss it, too.  I
 have commented on about forty other issues relating to error or allegation of
 error--including four of the other plagues; these essays are on linked on my
 home page at http://members.aol.com/JAlw/joseph_alward.html; you may pick any
 one of those if you wish and we can use it as a starting point for debate.
   >>
Charlie:
Taking a look at your site, I see you do have an entry for the cornerstone
errancy of all time: 

Jesus' predicted second coming within the lifetimes of some of his listeners.

I see you have something about Bethlehem, but mostly focus on whether
bethlehem is a place or a person.  This just takes the prophecy fulfillment
out of a Bethlehem birth. I don't see reference to the consideration that even
if Bethlehem is taken to be a place,

Matthew and Luke have two different ways of placing the birth in Bethlehem,
disagreeing as to wether the family originally came from there (Matthew) or
started out in Nazareth (Luke).  It just sounds like they were desperate to
place the birth at Bethlehem somehow, no matter how.

The reference to Herod's slaughter ought to include the fact that outside the
Bible, Herod's many enemies mentioned no such "slaughter of the innocents".

Jesus' sayings can be expanded to include the opposites:

Honor your father and mother (Matt 19:19 for example)
Luke 14:26   "Whoever comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife
   and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and even life itself, cannot be
   my disciple."
Mat 12:48   But to the one who had told him this, Jesus replied, "Who is my
   mother, and who are my brothers?"
John 2:3-4  When the wine gave out, the mother of Jesus said to him, "They
   have no wine."   And Jesus said to her, "Woman, what concern is that to you
and
   to me? My hour has not yet come."
Mat 8:21-22   Another of his disciples said to him, "Lord, first let me go and
   bury my father."   But Jesus said to him, "Follow me, and let the dead bury
their
   own dead."

or

Mat 5:22   But I say to you that if you are angry with a brother or sister,
   you will be liable to judgment; and if you insult a brother or sister,
   you will be liable to the council; and if you say, 'You fool,' you will
   be liable to the hell of fire.
Mat 23:17   You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the
   sanctuary that has made the gold sacred?

or 

Mat 5:44   But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who
   persecute you,
John 2:15   Making a whip of cords, he drove all of them out of the temple,
   both the sheep and the cattle. He also poured out the coins of the money
   changers and overturned their tables.


Your "Excluding Gentiles" is certainly a big contradiction, no doubt about
that.  Why do you list it under "doubtful"?  The contradictions are supposed
quotations of Jesus, so don't they go under "Jesus Said"?

How about the Sunday Sabbath?  Nowhere in the Bible is this authorized, yet
Christians continue to violate the commandment to keep the Sabbath (7th day of
the week), while holding everyone to the other nine commandments.


These are the biggies--not the plagues or the sizes of swimming pools.
(though the plague stories somehow allow for non-divinely-backed magicians to
perform miracles--itself a clue as to the magical, rather than historical,
mind-set of the authors.)