(Ron) Muslim unbelief in the crucifixion (was: Hareschewing cud)

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>>RON

>>  I don't believe the Quran refers to the Crucifixion as a hoax. But 

>>perhaps you can cite chapter and verse and a quote for us?


CREA
No problem.  The relevant passage occurs in Sura IV, verse 157 
where it says (in Ahmed Ali's translation, verses 155-157 cited for 
contextual reasons):


[IV:155]  "So (they [the Jews] were punished) for breaking the covenant
and disbelieving the signs of God, and for killing the prophets unjustly,
and saying:  'Our hearts are enfolded in covers,' (though) in fact God 
had sealed them because of their unbelief;  so they do not believe 
except for a few;

[IV:156]  "And because they denied and spoke dreadful calumnies of 
Mary; 
[IV:157]  "And for saying:  'We have killed the Christ, Jesus, son of
Mary, who was an apostle of God';  but they neither killed nor crucified
him,  THOUGH IT SO APPEARED TO THEM [my emphasis, JC].  Those who disagree in the matter
are only lost in doubt.  They have no 
knowledge about it other than conjecture, for surely they did not kill 
him..."

CREA
The well-known 13th century Islamic commentator 'Abdallah ibn 'Umar
al-Bai.daawi elaborates on this passage as follows (from __Gospel of
Barnabas__ by David Sox, pubished by George, Allen & Unwin, London, 
1984, page 90):


"It is related that a group of Jews reviled Isa [Jesus] ... then the Jews 
gathered to kill him.  Whereupon Allah informed him that he would 
take him up to heaven.  Then Isa said to his disciples,  'Which one of 
you is willing to have my likeness cast upon him, and be killed and 
crucified and enter Paradise?'  One of them accepted, and Allah cast the 
likeness of Isa upon him, and he was killed and crucified.  It is said also 
that he was one who acted the hypocrite toward Isa, and went out to 
lead the Jews to him. But Allah cast the likeness of Isa upon him, and 
he was taken and crucified and killed."


CREA
Given all of the above, if I were Muslim, I'd certainly conclude that the 
crucifixion (of Jesus) was a hoax, inasmuch as things were deliberately
engineered/orchestrated to give the FALSE impression that Jesus was 
the victim and not some other individual.

RON
  Based on your own evidence (but they neither killed nor crucified

>him,  THOUGH IT SO APPEARED TO THEM [my emphasis, JC]) there is no 

evidence for a "hoax". All it says is that it "appeared" to them that He 
was crucified. There is no evidence in the text to indicate any 
organized conspiracy to deceive anyone. The belief of some 13th century 
commentator is irrelevent. Do you use Christian commentators to 
interpret the meaning of the Bible? Is this how you interpret the Bible 
to find errors? It seems like you just read into it what you want.

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