1 Timothy 5:18 (Nielsen)
Jason Filley jfilley@primary.net" <jfilley@primary.net
Tue, 10 Mar 1998 00:46:01 -0600 (00889533961, 01BD4BBD.E90BAAC0.jfilley@primary.net)
> >> D R EDWARDS
> >> I'm sure this has come up before, but what's the take on 1 Tim 5:18?
The
> >> writer refers to the phrase "The worker deserves his wages" as
scripture,
> >> when this saying is recorded in the bible only in Luke 10:7. The
> >> bibliolaters (well, the better read ones, anyway) like to cite this as
> >> evidence that Gospel of Luke was in circulation and regarded as
> >>scriptural in Paul's
> >> lifetime.
> >>
> >> I do not believe this. I hold to the view of the pastorals being
> >> pseudo-Pauline; at the time of their writing, G of L could well have
been
> in
> >> circulation and regarded as authoritative. If 1 Timothy should happen
to
> >> be Pauline, then the addition of the phrase in question could
represent a
> >> scribal addition introduced some decades after its composition.
> >
> RALPH NIELSEN
> The writer of 1 Timothy, whether Paul or otherwise did not necessarily
copy
> the statement from Luke. First of all, Luke's gospel was not original; it
> was copied from other sources, as he says in Luke1:1-4. One of the
sources
> from which Luke (and Matthew) copied was the lost gospel called "Q". And
> sure enough, if you check the text of Q, there it is.
>
> EDWARDS
> Agreed. However, the fact that the Timothy writer might have copied the
> proverb from Q doesn't seem to be very helpful, because it would imply
only
> that the Timothy writer considered Q to be "scripture" rather than Luke.
> Perhaps Q was considered scripture at the time 1 Timothy was written, but
> I'm unaware of any evidence in support of this. I personally find it
more
> likely that the proverb in question was a scribal addition at some later
> date (or, as mentioned above, that 1 Timothy was written at a late enough
> date that Luke could well have been considered scripture), but I've been
> unable to locate any support for this idea in terms of textual variants.
>
> As to the business of Q, I'm aware that the four document hypothesis is
the
> most popular explanation of gospel composition. However, there's an idea
> developed by Farrar and refined by Goulding (Goulder?) which holds that
Luke
> used Matthew, rather than Q per se, as one of his sources, implying that
"Q"
> was really Matthew's "M" material (to use Streeter's terminology).
>
> NIELSEN
> For more information on Q, read The Lost Gospel; the Book of Q &
Christian
> Origins, / Burton L. Mack (HarperSanFrancisco, 1993). Although the
> aforementioned book contains the text of Q, you should buy The Complete
> Gospels; Annotated Scholars Version. Rev. & exp. ed. / Robert J. Miller,
> editor (HarperSanFrancisco, 1994. ISBN 0-06-065587-9 $18) It is a
goldmine
> of useful information. For convenience, scholars use the chapter and
verse
> numbering of Luke to identify what is borrowed from the lost gospel of Q.
>
> EDWARDS
> I have the book by Mack, and it's definitely a good book, as is his book,
> Who Wrote the New Testament? I don't have the book by Miller, however,
and
> I thank you for the tip on it. I'll put it on my "to buy" list, along
with
> about a half-dozen others - birthdays just don't come often enough for me
> :-/
>
> NIELSEN
> So this quotation in 1 Timothy is not late, but a pre-Lukan oral
tradition.
> 1 Timothy itself, however, is generally regarded as not being by Paul. So
> its author could have copied either from Q, or from the much later gospel
> of Luke.
>
> EDWARDS
> Agreed that the saying itself isn't late and that epistle itself could
very
> well have been. If the author copied from Q, however, then the
implication
> is that Q was considered authoritative, which strikes me as only slightly
> more likely than considering GoL authoritative.
JASON FILLEY
Cross-references--
Didache, or Teaching of the Twelve Apostles
13:1 But every true prophet desiring to settle among you is worthy of his
food.
13:2 In like manner a true teacher is also worthy, like the workman, of his
food.
13:3 Every firstfruit then of the produce of the wine-vat and of the
threshing-floor, of thy oxen and of thy sheep, thou shalt take and give as
the firstfruit to the prophets;
13:4 for they are your chief-priests.
Matthew 10:9,10 (NRSV)
Take no gold, or silver, or copper in your belts, no bag for your journey,
or two tunics, or sandals, or a staff; for laborers deserve their food.
Dialogue of the Savior 21 (Scholars Version) (From 'The Complete Gospels,'
Miller once more)
Mary said, "Just so: 'The wickedness of each day <is sufficient>,' and
'Laborers are worthy of their food,' and 'Disciples resemble their
teachers.'"
I Corinthians 9:14
In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel
should get their living by the gospel. [And get their living they have-JF]
>From Helmut Koester's "Ancient Christian Gospels," (excellent book; go to
amazon.com and order it):
page 63, 64 "Use of sayings in the deutero-Pauline epistles cannot be
demonstrated with certainty. If such sayings are used in Ephesians and
Colossians, they are hidden in the parenetic sections of the letters, e.g.,
"Let no evil talk come out of your mouth" (Eph 4:29; cf. Mark 7:15; Matt
15:11) Even the Pastoral Epistles, written in Asia Minor at a time when
several written gospels were known there, show no desire to refer to
sayings of Jesus and never appeal to them as authorities. Most remarkable
is the instance of the regulation for payment to church offricials in 1 Tim
5:17-18:
"The presbyters who govern well as presiding officers should be deemed
worthy of a double compensation, especially those who are engaged in
speaking and teaching. For the scripture says, 'You shall not muzzle an ox
when it is treading out the grain,' and 'the worker is worthy of his
wages.'"
The first of the two sayings is a scripture quotation (Deut 25:4), also
used by Paul in I Cor 9:9; but it is debated whether the second quote is
either a quote of Luke 10:7 as "scripture" or comes from a lost apocryphon
that was accepted as scripture by the author of I Timothy (reference). In
any case, it is surprising that there is no appeal to the authority of
Jesus."
(REFERENCE) Mr. Koester refers the reader to Martin Dibelius and Hans
Conzelmann, The Pastoral Epistles (Hermeneia; Philadelphia: Fortress, 1972)
78-79.
Jason