[Seekers] Punishment
Dave racerx@altinet.net
Thu, 5 Mar 1998 10:44:41 -0700 (00889141481, 199803051744.KAA25175@maxwell.kumo.com)
FENLEY
>> Was it wrong of Hilter to slaughter millions of Germans,
>> >Russians, Poles etc? Yes or no? If so, why? If not, walk down the
>> >streets of Brooklyn and shout, "Hitler was not wrong in what he did."
>> >k?BTW, that is a challenge. I double dog dare you.
>>
>> AUSTIN
>> I believe that it is wrong. However, I see no reason to condemn it in your
>> bible.
FENLEY
>Ok, that is all fine and good,...
RACERX
It looks like you're admitting that there is no reason to condemn the acts
using the Bible's edicts as a guide. Thats a little progress, anyway. I
doubt if this is what you meant, however.
FENLEY
>...but let's get to the core: Why do you
>believe it was wrong? A feeling? What determined that feeling?
RACERX
Ward, its no surprise, but you are dodging. Since YOU are the one who made
the claim that an objective standard of "right" and "wrong" exists, it makes
no difference whether anyone who believes in subjective morality can prove
to you that there is no such thing as "objective mortality". You, like so
many other theists, have a basic logic flaw: You do not understand that the
burden of proof lies upon the positive claimant. Actually, I think you DO
understand, but since you are clever enough to know there's no proof
whatsoever of your claim, the only thing you can do (besides shut up) is
attack the negative claimants and demand that they prove that your
"objective morality" doesn't exist. This dodging of the original argument is
obvious to everyone who is still reading your idiotic posts.
FENLEY
>If not a
>feeling, what, history? Prove to me that history has correctly
>identified what Hitler did as wrong, let alone that it even happened.
RACERX:
What a moron you are, Ward. Do you think the holocaust never happened? Do
you think the story is a conspiracy? Just curious.
FENLEY
>You may say I am crazy for asking that, but why would you trust that
>element of history and society's interpretation of that element as wrong
>any more than trusting the historical elements of the bible and its
>declaration of what is wrong? Because we have living witnesses?
RACERX
Thats one good reason. There's loads of documents, the camps themselves,
pictures, testimony of Germans and get this, Ward: It makes a really good
case for the reality of the events. And if you believe the holocaust never
happened, if you can deny the evidence that exists, then your mind is truly
warped. If you believe that something so well documented could be a
fabrication, then there's no reason to believe in a book which was assembled
by corrupt priests nearly 2000 years ago.
FENLEY
>What proof is that? Why are they to be trusted?
RACERX
Its called first-hand testimony. Maybe they can be trusted because they
still have tattoos on their arms which the Nazi bastards put on them. Maybe
because their stories line up with the other evidence.
>FENLEY
>Paul said there were 500
>witnesses to the resurrection of Christ.
RACERX
And these "witnesses" wrote down... NOTHING. The claim of "Paul" is
WORTHLESS since none of the 500 wrote anything about the event, and no one
(save a couple anonymous authors) recorded seeing the hordes of dead saints
raised, no one recorded the 3 hour solar blackout, no one reported the
earthquakes, etc etc etc. Since the "eyewitness" reports by "Matthew" were
copied from the 3rd hand (at least) accounts of Mark, the stories crumble
under the lightest scrutiny. It remains to be seen why morons like yourself
cling to these fables when you admit there's contradictions within it. I
guess you want to. Judging from your website, you think you'd go crazy if
you didn't. IMO no one would notice the difference.
FENLEY
>Or would you answer that it
>should be believed that it is wrong because it happened so recently and
>not enough time transpired for the details to get lost? Obviously you
>see the problem with that.
RACERX
Oh please, tell us the problem with trusting recent history recorded by
hundreds of eyewitnesses over ancient "history" recorded by anonymous
authors and bastardized by the churches for centuries.
FENLEY
>I am asking YOU personally why YOU believe it
>is wrong. Be concise.
RACERX
Dodge, weave, duck. You're the positive claimant, Ward. Since you've failed
to prove your bogus claim, there's no need to *disprove* it. There are
reasons why its advantageous for humans to believe that things are right and
wrong. For one thing, it helps make you happy. For another, it prevents
others from viewing you as a moron.
If you are curious to see an argument for this position, go here:
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/charles_watts/secular_morality.html
and here:
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/charles_watts/why_do_right.html
But for the LAST TIME: Since you claimed that some kind of "objective
morality" is defined in the Bible, since you FAILED to demonstrate how the
Bible defines some BASIC crimes, there is no need to humiliate yourself any
further by demanding that objective morality be disproven, or that some
other kind of "ultimate morality" has to be "proven". Unless you can
demonstrate the "objective morality" of your Bible, you're just another UFO
abductee IMO.
FENLEY
>Psalms 145:11-13 They shall speak of the glory of thy kingdom, and talk
>of thy power;
RACERX
Thats an understatement. Like the saying goes, talk is cheap!
FENLEY
{12} To make known to the sons of men his mighty acts, and
>the glorious majesty of his kingdom.
RACERX
And these "mighty acts" are...? Let me guess, you left the evidence in your
other pants. Maybe only the "sons of men" can see them. Maybe its just
another claim which cannot be supported, but still gets made anyway.
FENLEY
{13} Thy kingdom is an everlasting
>kingdom, and thy dominion endureth throughout all generations.
RACERX
uh huh. I guess the "kingdom" is Ward and his ilk, still blathering after
all these years. A kingdom of idiots, dominated by a mythical being. What a
joke.
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Philosophy is questions that may never be answered.
Religion is answers that may never be questioned.
racerx@altinet.net
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