[Seekers] Punishment
Ward Fenley kingdom@ksinc.net
Wed, 04 Mar 1998 13:10:10 -0600 (00889060210, 34FDA712.9D144281@ksinc.net)
Michael W. Fisher wrote:
>
> Ward Fenley wrote:
>
> > Farrell Till wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > FENLEY
> > > >Yes, after you tell me whether you believe in moral absolutes and then
> > > >let me challenge you to several situations. Then I will gladly accept
> > > >your challenge.
> > > >
> > >
> > > TILL
> > > I don't believe in moral absolutes, so present your challenge. I will
> > > agree to accept your challenge, even though the burden of proof in this case
> > > rests on you, because you are the one asserting the existence of moral
> > > absolutes.
> > >
> > WARD
> > Ok, first is it an ABSOLUTE that there are no moral absolutes?
>
> MWF Aw, I wanna play too, so I'll answer as well:
>
> Yes.
>
> > WARD
>
> > Second, if you answer that it is an absolute that there are no moral absolutes
> > but [that] belief in that absolute is not believing [in] a moral absolute,
> > [and] then if I
> > say that your belie[f] is not true, am I telling the truth according to
> > you?
>
> MWF What do you mean by truth?
>
> Is it true that you believe that what you say is true? Then probably yes.
>
> Is your assertion actually true? No.
>
> Is an assertion of mistaken belief about external fact a moral failure? Not
> usually.
>
> > WARD
>
> > Thus, if I am not telling the truth, then what do you call not
> > telling the truth and is it [] an absolute?
>
> MWF In the circumstances of the assertion above, it is a false belief that is
> being asserted. The moral culpability of uttering a false belief depends on the
> ability of whoever utters a false belief to know that that belief is or may be
> false, and their ability to then investigate that belief.
How do you define a false belief and what determines that false belief?
>
> > On the next email,
> > lets define truth.
>
> MWF Please do. It ought to be interesting.
>
That which is not a lie. :o] Your answer to the above question should
help us start defining. After all, if you who hold to no moral
absolutes, yet believe that there is absolutely a false belief, not only
is the burden of proof upon you to define false belief and also to
determine how absolutes are determined, you also have to pinpoint how to
determine whether denying a certain "non-moral" absolute is really a
moral absolute after all. If it is not, what gives you the freedom to
hold such a belief?
>
> --
> Michael Fisher, ET1/SS USN ret., law student
>
> >>NEW->http://www.infidels.org/library/humor/lioaca.html
>
> http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/logic.html
>
> http://home.aol.com/Mfish6994
>
> * * *
>
> ". . . a very LONG discussion is one of the most
> effective veils of Fallacy: . . . A Fallacy which
> when stated barely . . . would not deceive a child,
> may deceive half the world if diluted in a quarto
> volume"
> Richard Whately, "Elements of Logic", p. 151
--
Ward Fenley
Kingdom of Sovereign Grace
537 Crocker Road
Sacramento, CA 95864
Phone: 850-438-9053
Email: kingdom@ksinc.net
Web address: http://www.ksinc.net/~kingdom/
Psalms 145:11-13 They shall speak of the glory of thy kingdom, and talk
of thy power; {12} To make known to the sons of men his mighty acts, and
the glorious majesty of his kingdom. {13} Thy kingdom is an everlasting
kingdom, and thy dominion endureth throughout all generations.