[Seekers] Punishment

Farrell Till jftill@midwest.net
Wed, 04 Mar 1998 11:11:30 -0800 (00889060290, 2.2.32.19980304191130.006fba28@midwest.net) 

At 09:52 PM 3/3/98 -0600, Ward Fenley wrote:


>> >Of course I cannot prove that morality originated in the BIBLE (though I

>> >believe it did). I simply want those on this list to show me and prove

>> >to me why they do or do not believe in moral absolutes.

>> >

>> 

>> TILL

>> I'm not at all sure what you are trying to argue.  Please explain.  Perhaps

>> that could best be done if you would state your belief in the form of a

>> debating proposition, such as, "Absolute morality exists and can be

>> determined only by reading the Bible."

>> 

>

>

FENLEY

>Because that is my proposition only when debating those who believe

>PARTS of the Bible as the word of God. This is not my method when

>debating those who flatly deny that the Bible is the word. 

>

>I need answers from you first:

>

>ONe) do you believe in absolutes or not?

>


TILL
I just answered this in another posting.  No, I do not believe in moral
absolutes.

FENLEY

>If so, trace them back to their origin and prove that they originated in

>man. 

>

>If not, 

>

>1) Do you believe in any absolutes?

>


TILL
Yes, but I don't believe it is possible to know absolutely what they are.

FENLEY

>2) Do you believe any thing is right or wrong? Yes, it is as elementary

>as it sounds? If yes, then again, prove its origin and that it

>originated in man. If no, then I would ask you: Do you really believe

>that?


TILL
I believe in subjective morality, so I believe that many things are
subjectively wrong.  Do I have to name them?

Prove its origin and that it originated in man?  Well, okay, check any
social system you care to check, and you will find that it has moral codes.
These originated in the subjective thoughts and the experiences of the
people with whom they originated.

Now, it's your turn.  Prove the existence of objective or absolute morality
and do that without any resort to subjectivity.

By the way, I get well over 100 e-mails per day, so please don't double post
to me. If you send anything to the errancy list, I will receive a copy of
it.  I even received three copies of this posting I am presently answering,
so please be a little more considerate of my time constraints.

Farrell Till
Skepticism, Inc.
jftill@midwest.net