[Seekers] Punishment
Ward Fenley kingdom@ksinc.net
Sun, 01 Mar 1998 23:39:59 -0600 (00888838799, 34FA462F.8A47EA84@ksinc.net)
Farrell Till wrote:
>
> At 01:22 PM 3/1/98 -0600, Ward Fenley wrote:
> >Linda wrote:
> >>
> >> My Dear Friends,
> >>
> >> Why does it seem that in the "church world" everything must be
> >> "absolute"... black and white... right and wrong. We all know in the REAL
> >> world there is good and bad in everyone. There is some truth in many things
> >> and some falsehood in all things.
> >
> FENLEY
> >Ok, without the Bible, prove to me that anyone's definition of "right"
> >and "wrong" is absolute.
> >
> >Linda, if I walk over and kill Chuck in cold blood, try to prove to me
> >without the Bible that it's wrong. You can't, cause without the Bible
> >you have no absolutes.
> >
>
> TILL
> Well, gee, Ward, why couldn't I just quote the Code of Hammurabi or the Qur'an?
>
That is my point. My argument is not that the BIBLE is the original code
of ethics for humanity (though it is). My argument is that moral
absolutes have an origin somewhere. Now, if you do not agree with this,
then there is no point in continuing. If you do, then your job is to
convince me that:
First, it originated in man
Second, if you can prove it did originate in man, then does this first
"moralist" necessarily determine the morality of society, and why?
> Also, I would like for Ward to answer a question. Does the Bible teach that
> killing is an ABSOLUTE sin?
NO.
>
> I also issue a challenge to Ward to tell us how the Bible can be used to
> determine absolute morality, since the Bible is just a written document.
Again, I will do this provided you answer my questions. Remember, I am
not trying to prove to YOU that morality originated in the Bible. My
post was to Linda who, up until recently professed statements like:
"Many of you here have eaten from the Tree of Knowledge. You are full
and satisfied that you know it all. You, having all truth, will never
learn anything more. There are others who still hunger and thirst for
the Word of God."
I was approaching her from this vantage point.
Of course I cannot prove that morality originated in the BIBLE (though I
believe it did). I simply want those on this list to show me and prove
to me why they do or do not believe in moral absolutes.
As
> anyone with common sense knows, written documents must be interpreted in
> order to be understood. If Ward will agree to respond to them, I will be
> glad to send him a list of morally perplexing situations, which he can then
> solve for us by citing books, chapters, and verses in the Bible that give
> beyond question absolute solutions to all of these situations.
Send me what you will. I will gladly send you Bible verses. But
honestly, that is not what interests me or you in this particular case.
The subject is origin of morality. WHY WHY WHY?
So, what do
> you say, Ward? Are you willing to accept this challenge? If not, then I
> suggest that you just lurk around until you have enough starch in your spine
> to defend your position on absolute morality.
>
> Farrell Till
> Skepticism, Inc.
> jftill@midwest.net
Bring it on.
By decree,
Ward
--
Ward Fenley
Kingdom of Sovereign Grace
537 Crocker Road
Sacramento, CA 95864
Phone: 850-438-9053
Email: kingdom@ksinc.net
Web address: http://www.ksinc.net/~kingdom/
Psalms 145:11-13 They shall speak of the glory of thy kingdom, and talk
of thy power; {12} To make known to the sons of men his mighty acts, and
the glorious majesty of his kingdom. {13} Thy kingdom is an everlasting
kingdom, and thy dominion endureth throughout all generations.