'Eretz' not the real flood issue (was Re: Leaving the Fold)

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Hi Steve,

At 02:11 PM 8/3/98 +1000, Steve & Jules Carson-Rowland wrote:


>STEVE CR

>Hi Glenn, nice to see you are still around.

>

>Perhaps I'll let Farrell speak for himself, but I think Glenn is wrong in

>his claim. He appears to say that we (all of us who think that the Bible

>teaches a global flood) misunderstand the meaning of the word 'eretz' and

>therefore fall into an obvious trap.


Morton:

Thank you.  It is nice to still be around. :-) It has been a couple of
years or so since we communicated.  I hope you are well. 
I keep hearing that the Bible teaches this or that.  I am pointing out that
the Hebrew won't support that concept and no one seems to follow that
argument.  I am hoping you can enlighten me.

>

>However, nearly all the analyses of the passage Gen 6-9 that I have seen do

>not make that the centre of their argument. As Glenn rightly points out, it

>can mean 'country' or 'land' as well as 'earth'.

>

>It is due to the other aspects of the story that I believe that Gen 6-9 is

>teaching a global flood. Glenn and I discussed this in November 96 so he

>will have seen my arguments before, but I'll post them again. By the way, I

>think Glenn's theory is very imaginative.


Morton:
Yeah, imagination is not one of my failings. :-)


>

>-----------------------------------------

>This was my first set of points to Glenn:

>

>I am aware of the other meaning of the word translated as 'earth' -'land',

>but there still are these questions:

>

>1.  "And the waters prevailed exceedingly on the earth, and all the high

>hills under the whole heaven were covered. The waters prevailed fifteen

>cubits upward, and the mountains were covered." Gen 7:19-20. If the water

>level reached above the level of high mountains clearly it went all over

>the world.

>

>2.  "Thus I establish my covenant with you: Never again shall all flesh be

>cut off by the waters of the flood; never again shall there be a flood to

>destroy the earth". Gen 9:11.  There have been many floods subsequently

>which have been local. This promise only has meaning if it was global.


Morton:
I hope this is a better response than I gave last time.  One has to hope he
learns a bit as time goes on. That promise can be true if it is referring
to a SPECIFIC land, i.e. the Mediterranean Basin.  No subsequent flood has
ever flooded that land again! That is especially true if one considers
Genesis 6:13

"And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the
earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy
them with the earth."

God was going to destroy the 'land' under my view.  He did! As we said in
Oklahoma, 'there ain't no land there no more'.


Steve
Morton's reply snipped


>----------------------

>I hope Glenn doesn't mind me posting some of our correspondence but I

>thought it would be helpful in the current discussion.

>


Morton:

I don't.  


>On another note, I am surprised that Glenn keeps bringing up the meaning of

>'eretz' implying that only those who are not aware of its real meaning can

>believe that Gen 6-9 teaches a global flood.


No, what I hear is the assertion that the Bible clearly teaches a global
flood.  I don't believe it does and can only respond via the Hebrew
language.  Your post here is at least an analysis of the situation rather
than an assertion.
And that is what I always appreciated about you. You were willing to cite
facts and do some work rather than merely recite mantras.  You always made
me think harder also. Please continue making me think harder.

Steve:

>I noticed that April thought that everyone believed that Gen 6-9 taught a

>global flood, but Glenn is right that conservative opinion is changing.


this is why I am pounding on the word 'eretz' and this last tends to
undermine your former argument about the flood, at least I think it does.
glenn

Adam, Apes and Anthropology
Foundation, Fall and Flood
& lots of creation/evolution information
http://www.isource.net/~grmorton/dmd.htm

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