Leaving the Fold
April adorsey@netusa1.net
Sun, 2 Aug 1998 21:31:42 -0600 (00902133102, 199808030201.WAA17034@gatem02.netusa1.net)
> >
> >April
> >
> >Again, this is something for Farrell to argue with you, but I have met
> >NOBODY who doesn't think the bible SAYS it was a global flood
>
> Morton:
> Well, then I would humbly suggest that you haven't had a very broad range
> of acquaintences. You have met me. And I would point you to Bernard Ramm,
> the Christian View of Science and Scripture, 1954 as another person who
> believes that the Flood was local. I could cite Arthur Custance (look
him
> up on the Web ) as another. And even Matthew Poole of the 1600s believed
> that the Bible taught a local flood and he was prior to the explosion of
> geological knowledge. Here is the reference:
>
> "The Bible speaks of a Flood that annihilated every living thing-
> everything that had breath - within that area of 'the world known to Noah
> as the whole earth - or land.' If it should be asserted that such a view
> of the Flood is merely a concession to modern geological observations it
> may be well to point out that Matthew Poole in his Synopsis (1670), and
> Bishop Edward Stillingfleet in his Origines Sacra, (1662), both held that
> the Bible did not necessitate a belief that the Flood covered the entire
> planet. These books were written 180 years before the real development
of
> modern geology." ~ Frederick A. Filby, The Flood Reconsidered, (Grand
> Rapids: Zondervan Publishing Co., 1970), p. 83-84
>
April
Show me where the bible says "the Flood that annihilated every living
thing-
> everything that had breath - **within that area of 'the world known to
Noah
> as the whole earth - or land.'**" My bible doesn't read like that - it
says the whole world and EVERY LIVING THING - period.
> April:
> >
> >If you don't mind a personal question - why do you cling to religious
> >beliefs? What do you get out of them? I did look at your website and
you
> >post the best reasons for not believing in the biblical god. So why do
> >you?
>
> Morton:
> I don't 'cling' to them. I believe in Christ as my savior. And I find my
> relationship with God, with other Christians quite fulfilling. You all
may
> not believe that but I do. I also believe that it is true.
April
But why? (To Farrell - I know this is off topic - yell at me if you like
and I'll take this offlist.) Why do you believe Jesus rose from the dead
when (I presume) you don't believe any other person/god believed by others
to have done the same, to have done the same?
>
Morton
> As to posting the 'best reasons for not believing in the biblical god', I
> merely post the scientific data nothing more. (I appreciate the
compliment
> though about the quality of my page. You are quite kind) Reading God into
> or out of that data is an act of faith and you have engaged it that act
by
> reading god out of the universe. You can't prove God isn't here any more
> than I can prove to you that He is. Both positions are faith based. The
> only difference is that I admit my basis in faith and you won't or would
be
> reluctant to. We humans have no idea what occurred prior to Planck time
> (10^-43 sec) after the big bang. The laws of physics break down but no
one
> can claim that there was nothing except by faith and faith alone. I
can't
> claim that there was something except by faith alone. So scientifically
we
> are at a standoff in our metaphysical quest. It seems to me a bit
arrogant
> to claim absolutely that there was nothing before the Big Bang, no
> intelligence to cause the universe, when we have no evidence either way.
> It becomes a mystery solved by faith. Does that mean that faith is only
> fideism? No, I find many subjective proofs of my position, but they
> wouldn't interest you.
> glenn
>
April
I can't prove that god doesn't exist, but I CAN prove that he isn't
necessary for human (and universe) existence. And you're using the first
cause argument, which, as I'm sure you know, doesn't solve your problem.
As per your own website, I stopped believing because I saw no evidence for,
and a lot of evidence against, a deity concerned with our personal welfare.
Feel free to try and reconvince me if you like - my mine (unlike others)
is always open, and I can, and will (upon sufficient evidence) change it
(having done so on numerous occasions on various subjects, including this
one.)