(Ron) Aristotle

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RON

>>   We have 4 books which detail Jesus' life and teachings, not to 

mention the letters of numerous of his direct disciples. We also have 
the letters of the Apostles direct students (The Apostolic Fathers). 
There is a whole culture which keeps time based on their estimate of His 
birth. The largest and longest lasting government (the Catholic Church), 
established by Him, is still in existence.

>>   The problem is you have different standards for Him than you do for 

Aristotle. Aristotle doesn't make any demands on you or cause you to 
feel convicted. Aristotle doesn't ask you to change your life. He does.

>

>HELEN:

>I agree with you on your last paragraph but don't you think it is 

exactly because of the dmands on our lives that the Christian myth 
makes, that we should demand more evidence for Jesus not less. Your 
proof is much less.  There are no letters by his disciples that know him 
during his life that are accepted by most scholars. Paul never know him. 
A couple of the gospels may have been written as much as 70 years after 
his death. The best anyone claims, and this claim is rejected by most 
scholars, is one as early as around 10 years after his death. The 
gospels contradict each other.  Finally even though some of the events 
in the gospels should have secondary witnesses, slaughter of the 
children by Herod, the hours of darkness in the 

>daytime, many dead people walking about, the earthquake, and probably a  

couple of other "events") these witness do not exist.

DAVID CONKLIN
1) The evidence that paul knew of Jesus can be found in his 
writings--this is acknowledged by Jewish, Catholic, Protestant, and 
non-Christian scholars alike.  See any decent commentary of Romans for 
instance.
2) There are literally very few scholars who believe that any of the 
gospels were written "as much as 70 years after" the death of Jesus.
3) One must always ask on what basis do the scholars "reject" that 
Matthew may have been written within 10 years of Christ's death.  If you 
do so you will find precious little eviudence to support their case.
4) It is alleged that the Gospels contradict each other--usually these 
"contradictions" are the result of ignoring the context of the passages, 
ignoring the cultural context of the writings, reading menaings into 
words and phrases that the original writers, and readers, would never 
have had in their mind, and sometimes by a too literal interprtation of 
the texts.
5) The witnesses to the miracles of the Bible either accepted the 
message or rejected it--the latter however could not write anything 
agaisnt the miracles themselves because there was too much evidence 
"waking around" to counter their arguments.

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