(Ron) Borgia to Ron
Helen Willis hhiwater@BRIGHT.NET
Sat, 02 May 1998 15:38:34 -0700 (00894166714, 354BA069.117B@bright.net)
Brian Dean wrote:
>
> HELEN:
> Are you claiming that Borgia listened to the voice of the "Holy Spirit"?
> Did he do this before or after his orgies in the papal palaces? Do you
> really think anything would have constrained this guy from anything that
> he wanted to do? I believe that one of the things he was accused of was
> having sex with his daughter Lucrezia, if he wasn't restrained from
> that, do you really think he would have been restrained from misusing
> any of his papal powers? Remember this is the guy who's hachet man was
> his son, Casare, who he made a cardinal and about whom Machiavelli
> supposedly model, "The Prince". I don't think anyone would claim any
> restraining influence on this family other than self interest.
>
> HELEN:
> Are my words, "right" and "moral" any more or less self defined than
> yours? At least I take the responsibility for examining my self
> definitions. What is the basis of the people you consult decisions? I
> would say mine have shown me a time tested moral compass. If the
> current pope was as corrupt as Borgia would his judgement be binding
> for you? How would you judge whether or not the pope was corrupt?
>
> RON
> Once again, the personal virtue of the particular pope is irrelevent
> to the Divine guidance concerning matters of faith and doctrine. Can you
> cite any examples of Borgia making such pronouncements not in line with
> Church doctrine? If that was the case I would cease to consider myself a
> "Roman" Catholic and would have to revise my understanding of
> Catholicism and the Church. The Roman Catholic Church teaches that the
> Holy Spirit prevents the popes from ruling in error on these issues
> regardless of their "corrupt"ness or holiness.
HELEN:
The Inquisition, the Crusades, allowing the use of torture during heresy
trials, and my personal favorite the Witchcraft trails. Or were these
not things that your church once taught were good and right? Didn't some
pope Innocence or something like that order the Inquisition? Or are you
going to claim that none of this stuff was ever really church teaching?
Helen
hhiwater@bright.net