(Ron) Borgia to Ron

Brian Dean bridean@worldnet.att.net
Sat, 2 May 1998 10:01:15 -0400 (00894135675, 19980502134953.AAA2072@briandea) 

HELEN:
So are you claiming the Holy Spirit stopped him from using the powers of
his office for personal gain? He used his power to excommunicate and
declare people heretic to kill an honest priest that opposed him. You
told that story yourself. Cersare was truly the pope's hatchet man, by
the way. He had private agents whom he supposedly used to kill several
people, most of which was to advance his father's agenda. Lucrezia
Borgia was famous for poisoning people. Some of which she was accused of
doing at her father's request. I would guess he saw no profit in making
an ex cathedra ruling is the only reason that didn't. If priest can and
have used the church and the power of their office to rape little
children, why do you believe that the power to provide moral guidance
can not be misused by the Catholic Church? So let's try my question yet
again, since we know popes can be corrupt, how do you or any Catholic
know this pope or any pope isn't as corrupt as Borgia? I not saying he
is. I'm asking you, Claire and Ron, how you know as Catholics that a
pope isn't as corrupt as Borgia? 

By the way didn't several popes sign off on the Inquisition? Was this
not an action of moral guidance by the church? Was the Inquisition
moral? How about the Catholic trials of witches? Didn't the church go
along with these things? Didn't the church in fact cause these things to
be?


RON
  For the third time! It is irrelevent to the truthfulness of 
Christianity and catholicism whether a pope is corrupt. We worship 
Jesus, not the pope. The pope is simply the visible leader of the 
earthly organization of the Church, not an idol. 
  Your understanding of history is incorrect. The inquisition was not 
entirely under the control of the Church. The Spanish Inquisition, most 
notably, was hi-jacked by the secular authorities. Just as any system of 
justice it sometimes erred due to personal ambition and greed. That 
doesn't mean we should have anarchy.