LXX (Hebrews 11:21)(SteveCR/F.Till)

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STEVE CR (27/4)
Now I really am confused. The LXX Pentateuch existed BC? It was a Greek
translation of the OT Pentateuch?

MATT BELL
The Rylands Papyrus #458, Aristobulos comments, Letter of Aristeas,
comments of Josephus, all bear witness to a Greek translation of the Law. 

STEVE CR
Well, I'm indebted to another evangelical for the following which once
again calls on our trusty, non-LXX friend, the writer of Hebrews.


>From "The New Testament Use of the Old Testament" by Moises Silva (from

'Scripture and Truth' p. 150)

"In Hebrews 11:21 we read that Jacob, when he was at the point of death,
blessed Joseph's sons "and worshipped upon the top of his staff." These
words are an exact quotation from the LXX of Genesis 47:31 (kai
prosekynesen epi to akron tes rhabdou autou). The difficulty arises when we
check our English versions of Genesis, which say nothing about a staff;
rather, they speak of Israel (Jacob) as bowing down on the head of his
*bed*... "

MATT BELL (27/4)
In Genesis 47:31 it says, 

'And he (Israel) said, Swear unto me. And he (Joseph) sware unto him. And
Israel bowed himself upon the bed's head.'

 In Hebrews 11:21 we read, 

'By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and
worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.' 

Since Jacob did not bless the sons of Joseph until chapter 48 are you
saying that the writer of the Hebrews didn't record things chronologically?
Or are they two different events, which would explain why, 'when we check
our English versions of Genesis, which say nothing about a staff; rather,
they speak of Israel (Jacob) as bowing down on the head of his *bed*... "
By the way I am aware that bed and staff are the same Hebrew letter
differentiated only by the vowel points.

STEVE CR (27/4)
For Matt's benefit I have checked my Greek NT which claims to be "the Greek
text underlying the English Authorised Version of 1611" and it is the Greek
above. I have no way of checking the Greek of the LXX, but book 'Scripture
and Truth' is a fairly scholarly book.

Now apart from establishing a BC Pentateuchal LXX (which we all agree on),
doesn't this show that the writer of Hebrews used the LXX (only
Pentateuchal of course)?

MATT BELL
[snip more of same 'the LXX copied from the NT' argument]

Whichever one is correct the Hebrews 11:21 verse does not establish
anything more than what is already accepted, a BC Greek Pentateuch. 

STEVE CR (later on the 27/4)
So why press on and demonstrate the existence of a BC LXX complete OT? 

We have demonstrated that a BC Pentateuchal LXX existed. We have
demonstrated where the NT quoted from this document. But this is
insuffucient for you. Why would demonstrating that every single book of the
OT and every single chapter of every single book of the OT was translated
into Greek make any difference?


Steve Carson-Rowland
Queensland - Land of Eternal Summer

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