Dick's insults (Claire take note)
Brian Dean bridean@worldnet.att.net
Mon, 27 Apr 1998 06:28:18 -0400 (00893690898, 19980427101723.AAA24319@briandea)
>BRIDEAN
>Then how do you know that Jesus was merely a common criminal?
DICK
What makes you think I know this? How does a person know
anything?
BRIDEAN
Are you saying that you don't know anything?
>>BRIDEAN
>>No, it wasn't the ONLY Christianity until Martin Luther. There was (and
>still is)
>>Orthodoxy
>DICK
>Orthodoxy? Do you imagine that Orthodoxy differs in any
>doctrine from the ONE Christianity? No Pope ever considered
>the Orthodox non-Christian. They were excommunicated in
>1054 and of course, excommunication can only be done of
>Catholics, not infidels. The excommunication was lifted in
>1965 by Pope John Paul VI. But even prior to that, the
>sacraments of the Orthodox were and are valid.
>BRIDEAN
>So, are the Orthodox part of the Catholic church? Or are they schismatic?
DICK
Fallacy of false dilemma. They are both. There is only
one Christian church.
BRIDEAN
Filioque, is what I have to say to that.
>>Have you ever heard of Nestorius? The whole history of
>>Christianity was pretty much one sect versus another from the very
beginning.
>DICK
>Nestorius? Have you ever heard of Christianity, the word
>I used? Nestorius was a human being, not a sect or religion.
>Nestorius was a bishop of the Roman Catholic Church until
>deposed and exiled. The Nestorians were Christians, part
>of the communion of saints. The Chaldean Nestorian
>Christians were reunited with Rome in the 1500's. The
>sacraments of the Nestorians were valid.
>BRIDEAN
>So are the Nestorians Catholic? Or are they schismatic?
DICK
Fallacy of false dilemma. Again, they are both.
BRIDEAN
How about, Mary is not the mother of God but the mother of Jesus?
Theotokos, is what I have to say to that.
>Did you know that
>there was a conference held recently between the Nestorians and Catholics
>to determine what they had in common?
DICK
Such conferences are ongoing with many schismatic groups,
the Orthodox, the Anglicans, etc.
BRIDEAN
Interesting that Catholics would have conferences with other Catholics on
how they can be reunited.
>Or better yet, how about the Gnostics? Were the Gnostics part of the
Catholic
>church?
DICK
No, the Gnostics were not Christians. The Gnostics had
two gods, good and evil. The evil god, Demiurge, was
the one who created the universe. They had salvation by
secret knowledge of reality, which is what the word
gnosis means. Gnosticism predates Christianity. The
Gnostics said the physical world was an illusion and
didn't exist. Some later incorporated Jesus into their
belief system as a messenger from the good god but
others used Seth, the son of Adam, while others used
pagan figures. Not Christian at all.
BRIDEAN
But there were some Gnostic Christians in the sense that they
believed Christ.
Of course, you yourself said that the past is nonexistent.