Catholicism, the other side.
AutismUK AutismUK@aol.com
Sun, 25 Jan 1998 02:38:48 EST (00885735528, 766c48a8.34caec0a@aol.com)
In a message dated 24/01/98 19:50:50, you write:
> The British prime minister of Britain and the French premier of France, and
> no one else, declared war on Germany in 1939. Germany was ignoring the
> Versailles Treaty, and Britain and France ignoring the Kellogg-Briand Pact
> and the Locarno Treaties. There were various ideological, economic, and
> social differences between the sides, but Catholicism was by no means in
> an argument they had.
It would be more accurate to say that the Locarno Treaty was unsupported
rather than broken. At this time both Britain and France were trying to
avoid war - fulfilling the treaty would have involved declaring war on
Germany. The K-B pact was a joke by this time anyway. It was a political
'lets all be nice to each other' pact which had been ignored by Japan & Italy
by this point as it was a simple 'lets not fight' statement. Defending it
would
have involved over-reaction (such as declaring war for the invasion of
Manchuria by Japan).
> Adolf Hitler's only oppostion within the Reich was the Catholic Church, who
> got in the way of his Darwinian convictions. Hitler formed the National
Reich
> Church, which appealed to the Teutonic identity of Germans, and was the
> most unchristian church ever.
This is not accurate. Some members of the Catholic church opposed Hitler,
some did not. Hitler used anything and everything to support National
Socialism, including Catholicism. (The Darwin comment is idiotic)
Hitler, of course, claimed to be a Catholic himself.
> The famous (or infamous) ATHEIST Mussolini was killed and his corpse
> indignantly strung up by Catholic Italians before the allies arrived.
Catholic
> Italy had opposed Hitler's illegal anschluss with Austria (or the Ostmark
> as he affectionately spoke of it) in the mid-1930s by allying with Britain
> and France in the Stresa Front. It was Mussolini who condoned the anschluss
> ('joining together') in 1938, after having signed the Rome-Berlin Axis sans
> popular Catholic consent, and then the 1939 Pact of Steel.
> Also, remember that the 'Forces of evil' comprised of Christian counries,
> and that Hitler had contrived the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, which meant
that,
> until the forties, Germany and atheist Russia were allies.
Mussolini's atheism is irrelevant, and all that is known about his death is
that he was killed by Italian partisans. The degree of catholicism, or what
effect that it had on this act is irrelevant. Most of Italy wanted Mussolini
dead by this time. During the 30's Mussolini was continually manipulated
by Hitler, being pushed into a corner where he had no option but to
support any act, being reduced to behind-closed-doors protests.
However, he did have general public support in the late 30's - for the
attack on Ethopia for example.
The Germany-Russia pact was a simple device to carve up Eastern
Europe free of interference by the two major powers, and leaving Hitler
free to concentrate on the west.
One could accuse UK and France of doing a similar thing to the
Sudetanland in 1938 (which was defended by Stalin).
> Far more non-Catholics and non-Catholic areas were destroyed, by
> non-atomic weapons. The atom bomb COULD have been devastating,
> but was actually used just as a show of force rather than to actually cause
> damage and loss of life. The precursors of the Napalm were used for this
> purpose, and caused a great deal more pain to the Empire of the Sun. The
> 'mountains of truth' may well be the many, many Japanese people and
> constructions that were destroyed rather than just the churches. It would
> certainly take a determinedly anti-Catholic to nuke 2 cities just to wipe
> out a parish.
If one wanted a simple show of force one could have dropped it over the
sea, or simply only dropped one. The atom bomb was pretty devastating -
limitations on its use were more to do with the production of U235 and
Pu239.
> Economically, the USA was STILL in the dumps of the 1929 Wall Street
> Crash. Despite FD Roosevelt's inspiring attempts, the US economy needed
> a huge boost. The war would provide this, so America joined in later. There
> was also the consideration of showing up Japanese aggression in the Far
> East and Pacific. England and France, I believe, did not attack Germany to
> protect Jews. The Holocaust (if it really happened) began in 1940, a year
> after the start of WWII. Not only this, but Britain and France were still
poor,
> and Germany was getting rich. It was envy, maybe, that turned the greedy
eyes
> of the west to the German Reich.
> Russia did not join to protect Jews, but because Germany declared war on
> Soviet Russia in his infamous Operation Barbarossa.
Ah. A History Revisionist..... England and France declared war on Germany
in defence of Poland in theory, but because by 1939 it was inveitable anyway
that Hitler would then turn his attention to Western Europe. One could make
a case for the 'real' War beginning on May 10 1940, with the invasion of the
Low Countries, or with the invasion of Norway slightly earlier. It depends on
your perspective. It could be run back to the Annexation of Austria in 1938.
In terms of Jewish extermination or whatever, the "Holocaust" had started
before the war, beginning with the definition on Hitler's ascension to
Reichschancellor, having its origins in his time as an Austrian layabout in
the 1900-1914 period. One could argue the Holocaust began with Kristallnacht
or the invasion of Poland, with the first 'concentration camps' , but
extermination
began in earnest when the SS took control in 1942 at Wannassee.
I believe that there were Catholic run and supported Concentration Camps in
Croatia in the 1940's.
The German nation wasn't rich - cash was poured into the Armed Forces,
being supported by the acts of those Armed Forces - each new annexation or
invasion provided raw material, soldiers etc. for the German Army.
It wasn't economically sustainable though, and drove the owner of the
Reichsbank (whose name I've forgotten (Schacht ?)) round the twist.
Russia didn't join WW2 to protect the Jews, but to protect Russia. One
wonders which side you would expect Russia to join. I don't think anyone
actually joined to 'protect the Jews' as the full knowledge of "the Final
Solution" was not available until after the War.
Paul Robson (autismuk@aol.com)