Abraham &Sarah - my apologies - no problem (Claire)
Claire E. O'Connor claireoc@softdisk.com
Thu, 15 Jan 1998 22:22:00 -0600 (00884946120, 34BEE067.45C0@softdisk.com)
Ian & Pam Dorion wrote:
>
> IAN
> Dear Claire,
> My note to you below was never answered by you due to the X'mas holidays. I
> just thought I would resend it in case you wished to rebut it. You
> certainly don't have to since it is not a biblical errancy problem. Of
> course, if you are going to say each verse is exaggerated or absurd and it
> was just the thinking of the people during that time, then how can we have
> a meaningful discussion? Every time we have a disagreement, you will run to
> your religious teacher and see what he has to say.
>
> I know you mean well but you are not doing yourself any favors be allowing
> them (your church and their teachers) to jerk you around from the OT to the
> NT or wherever and whatever way they want to do it. You are young though
> and you are intelligent and I think you are looking for truth so maybe one
> day you will sit down and study the Bible starting with Genesis.
>
> Regards,
> Ian
CLAIRE
Dear Ian:
I don't think I will EVER be able to answer your questions to your
satisfaction. I will try to think of something, but I don't feel very
creative right now. *sigh*
I believe you when you say Josef Stalin was raised as a Christian, but I
must insist to you that he was not living up to Christian ideals when he
was dictator of the Soviet Union.
You are right that Germany was mostly Catholic or Lutheran, and the
people supported Hitler. But World War I had much more to do with
causing WWII than any Christian ideas did. The secular governments did
not act properly to stop Hitler before WWII started. After it started,
most other governments did not do enough to protect the Jews. The
Vatican should have spoken out forcefully against Hitler, and failed to
do so, but at least the Vatican did rescue some Jews. (I can provide a
link for that if you want, or repeat what I have previously cited from
John Toland's book about Hitler.)
As for the Promise Keepers, I think that we should take a "wait and see"
attitude. Perhaps we should do a survey of the Promise Keepers and their
families and associates to find out if the Promise Keepers are "better
men" as a result of their being a part of the movement. I did read
material from the link you provided, but it seemed unfairly biased
against the Promise Keepers.
I told you what I believe about Abraham and Sarah. What more can I say?
By the way, I seem to remember that you once mentioned an Encyclopedia
of Biblical Errancy. Why do YOU need such a book? You could find all you
need to know about errancy by just reading the Bible with a concordance
and a Bible dictionary!
Even though I disagree with you on so many things, I do enjoy
corresponding with you!
Regards,
Claire
> > IAN (Message from December)
> > Dear Claire,
> > You have to remember that I have only read and studied the five books of
> > Moses. I started to read Joshua but my family values couldn't take much
> of
> > it. Also, this is a biblical errancy group so I don't think I have to go
> > too far in the Bible to prove errancy. Since you seem to agree that the
> > Bible IS in error but you still wish to accept it, as the Holy of Holies,
> > there is no point in continueing this discussion. It is certainly
> possible
> > the stories of Abraham are exaggerated, if indeed he ever lived, just as
> it
> > is possible that the feats and stories of Jesus are exaggerated, if
> indeed
> > he ever lived..
> >
> > For your information, Josef Stalin was raised as a Christian and attended
> a
> > Christian school. He did so well at school that he won a full scholarship
> > to seminary. While in the seminary he read some forbidden books on
> > Communism and was either kicked out of left of his own volition.
> Apparently
> > communism suited him better than Christianity but not better than the
> > exploits of Joshua.
> >
> > As for my obnoxious saying, "Good Christians make good Nazis," while it
> may
> > well be obnoxious, it is none the less true. Let me explain.
> >
> > Good Christians say, "My God right or wrong, and my God is never wrong."
> > When a non-christian brings up the Hebrew Horde going into Canaan Land
> > under God's command killing all the men, women and children, except for
> the
> > virgins which they kept for their sexual pleasures, the Christians always
> > say that God had his reasons. Even killing the babies was justified since
> > they went straight to heaven.
> >
> > Good Christians say, "My country right or wrong and my country is never
> > wrong."
> > So when this country chose to support the tyranical South Viet-namese
> > government, the people supported the war because we were lied to (I was
> one
> > of them). Even though the North and South had a treaty to have a national
> > election to determine the type of government they would have, this
> country
> > knew it would go communist and refused to let it come about. The American
> > Legion is a patriotic organization made up of veterans who still support
> > our part in the Viet-Nam War. You must profess a belief in God to belong
> > (or lie). We can also go back to Nazi Germany (will you ever hear the end
> > of it?). Hitler did not kill the Jews by himself. Germany was mostly
> Roman
> > Catholic and Lutheran. They supported Hitler.
> >
> > Good Christians say, "My boss right or wrong, and my boss is never
> wrong."
> > I have seen them sign documents they had no business signing. I have seen
> > them object to something they knew to be wrong, and indeed try to right
> it.
> > When the boss told them to shut-up and butt out, they did. When did you
> > ever hear of a born again Christian being a whistle blower?
> >
> > Good Christians say, "My husband right or wrong, and my husband is never
> > wrong." What do you think the Promise Keepers are all about?
> >
> > What do I call "A Good Christian?" "A Good Christian" tells everyone he
> is
> > a Christian, brags about all he does for the church, says grace in
> public,
> > prays in public, etc. etc. I think you get the idea.
> >
> > If you think I'm wrong when I say, "Good Christians make Good Nazis,"
> write
> > to the Pope and tell him to release the papers the Jews are asking for
> > concerning Pope Pius XII, the RCC, Hitler and Nazi Germany. What does he
> > have to hide?
> >
> > Ian Dorion
> > Jesus Saves Jesus' Slaves
> > (I hope this is more to your liking.)