"Sins of the Father"
Ian & Pam Dorion dorioni@ipa.net
Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:16:29 -0600 (00884686589, 199801130418.WAA16593@thunder.ipa.net)
IAN: Sorry I misaddressed this to this group. RH has his copy.
> IAN
> > << As you know, I have only studied the Penteteuch and therefore, have
> little
> >
> > knowledge of exactly what happened here. What I would like for you to
> >
> > explain is what difference it makes whether the child was killed by God
> >
> > because David and Bathsheba committed adultry or because David gave the
> >
> > enemies of God the opportunity to blaspheme? Are not both of these
"Sins
> of
> >
> > the Father?" And what kind of a loving God would kill an innocent child
> >
> > anyway?
> >
> > >>
> >
> > RH responds
> >
> > God controls all things so that whether a person lives or dies and when
a
> > person
> > is born or dies is entirely within the control of God and determined by
> God.
> > All life begins at the command of God, and all life ends on His
command.
> > Consequently, whether the child lived or died is not the issue. It is
> God who
> > began that life, it is God who ended that life, regardless of whether
the
> > child lived two days or 120 years.
> >
> > More importantly, life on earth is insignificant in the Biblical
context
> > because it represents so small a part of a person's actual existence.
> The
> > greater part of a person's life will be spent in either heaven or hell.
> No
> > matter how long a person lives or what possessions that person
> accumulates, or
> > what enjoyment is received during this life, they become insignificant
> once a
> > person's life on earth ends and he enters heaven or hell. So, both in
> terms
> > of time spent and quality of life, a person's existence on earth for a
> few
> > days to a few dozen years has little significance. How much attention
do
> you
> > give to any individual second or your life?
> >
> > On the other hand, life is significant because the actions of a person
> during
> > that life determine whether a person will end up in heaven or hell.
> >
> > Consequently, the real issue here from the Biblical context is not
> whether the
> > child lives or dies but whether the child goes to heaven or hell. You
> are
> > identifying the mere end of the earthly life of the child as a
punishment
> for
> > David's actions which is your own personal perspective. It is forcing
> the
> > Bible to be understood as you want it to be understood instead of
within
> the
> > context of the Bible itself. In the Biblical context, death (or the
end
> of
> > life here on earth) is not a punishment. Death only sets into
concrete
> the
> > final destiny of a person. If you are to conclude that the child was
> punished
> > for the sins of David (whether adultery or giving the enemy the
> opportunity to
> > blaspheme) then your conclusion is that the child has been consigned to
> hell
> > by God's action.
> >
> > Is that the conclusion that you are drawing? In other words, are you
> saying
> > that God struck the baby and it died because God had determined that
the
> baby
> > should spent eternity in hell as a punishment for David's sins? If
yes,
> then
> > you can conclude that the baby was punished for the sins that David
> committed.
> > This is the opposite of what the Bible says. The Biblical position
> prevents
> > the child from being punished for David's sins, i.e., from being
> consigned to
> > hell because of David's sins.
>
> IAN
> My you are long winded. You may dream of heaven and hell but not I. If
> death were not a punishment, then why did God strike dead Aaron's son for
> spilling his seed on the ground? Why did God have Joshua commit genocide?
> Why is God such a murderous entity? Why did God cause the great flood?
> Where, anyplace in the Penteteuch at least, is hell mentioned as a place
of
> punishment? I'm sorry Roger, you may have your distorted views on the
Bible
> but they sound utterly ridiculous to me.
>