(Nancy): fully divine and fully human
Steven Carr Steven@bowness.demon.co.uk
Sun, 15 Feb 1998 11:55:15 +0000 (00887565315, pewRyEAjet50Ew1z@bowness.demon.co.uk)
vanhoose <vanhoose@BRIGHT.NET> writes
>PAT
> There are Scriptures that addrees Jesus' humanity:
CARR
No they don't. This scriptures prove that Jesus was divine and only
seemed to have a human body. The very earliest Christians had all
different kinds of views about Jesus. Your Christianity was just a
minority viewpoint among many which existed in the 1st and second and
3rd century.
All of them can be supported by scripture, as I will show.
This is why you need logical arguments. Scriptural citations are
useless.
PAT
>
>He grew intellectually and physically. "Jesus kept increasing in wisdom
>and stature, and in favor with god and man" (Luke 2:52)
CARR
Many early manuscripts say for Luke 'Jesus increased in wisdom and
stature and in spirit.' It is pretty easy to see why later manuscripts
dropped that,
>
>He desired food. "And after He had fasted forty days and forty nights,
>He became hungry." (Matt. 4:2)
CARR
Luke 4:1-2 '... for forty days in the wilderness, tempted by the devil.
And he ate nothing in those days'.
Are you saying that a human can eat nothing for 40 days and still live?
Clearly Jesus only seemed to be human.
Of course, I doubt very much if you take Luke 4:2 literally. The plain
meaning of the text is unacceptable to orthodox Christian doctrine.
PAT
>
>He became tired. "...Jesus therefore, being wearied from his journey..."
>(John 4:6)
CARR
Jesus *says* that he was hungry and thirsty, but you will notice that in
John 4, he does not eat and drink, despite requests ro do so. Clearly
Jesus only seemed to be human and did not need to eat and drink, except
when he wanted to, for show.
PAT
>
>He needed sleep. "And behold, there arose a great storm in the sea, so
>that the boat was covered with the waves; but He Himself was asleep"
>(Matt. 8:24)
CARR
Sleeping on a little boat, during the middle of a storm so violent that
the boat was about to sink and experienced sailors were unable to cope,
is *not* the sign of a normal human being.
Jonah was also asleep during a violent storm, just before the storm was
calmed. Jesus simply slept out of typology, to show that he really was
greater than Jonah.
PAT
>
>He cried. "Jesus wept" (John 11:35)
CARR
Even angels weep.
>
>He died. "...but coming to Jesus, when they saw He was already dead,
>they did not break his legs." (John 11:33)
CARR
The divine Christ had already left the man Jesus, hence Jesus's cry of
'My God, My God, why have you forsaken me'.
The divine Christ entered the man Jesus at his baptism. (Mark 1:11) As
John was preaching baptism for the repentance of sins, the man Jesus
could not have been the Christ and still be baptised. Baptism is for
sinners as the NT clearly teaches.
>
>Jesus possessed all the attributes of humanity.
>
>Jesus also performed divine works:
>
>Christ created all things (John 1:3; Colossians 1:6; Hebrews 1:10)
>
>Christ upholds all things (Colossians 1:17; Hebrews 1:3)
>
>Christ directs and guides the course of history (1 Corinth. 10:1-11)
>
>Christ forgives sin (Mark 2:5-12, Colossians 3:13)
>
>Christ bestows eternal life (John 10:28, 1 John 5:10)
>
>Christ will raise the dead at the resurrection (John 11:25; John
>5:21,28,29)
>
>Christ will be the judge of all men in final judgement (John 5:22,27;
>Matt. 25:31-46; 2 Corinth. 5:10)
CARR
These are all the divine Christ, not the man Jesus.
>
>Jesus received worship as God:
>
>"And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they came up and took
>hold of His feet and worshipped Him" (Matthew 28:9)
>
>"And when they saw Him, they worshipped Him" (Matthew 28:17)
CARR
Both are after the divine Christ had raised the man Jesus.
PAT
>
>"And he said, 'Lord, I believe.' And he worshipped Him" (John 9:38)
>
>To worship any other god, angel, man or manmade image is idolatry. And
>yet Jesus accepted worship only due to God.
The divine Christ was being worshipped.
PAT
> An example of viewing both natures of Jesus would be His experience
>with the Samaritan woman ant the well. He was tired and thirsty as He
>sat down by the well (human). In His conversation with the woman hae
>told her about her former husbands and the man she was living with
>(insight beyond human). When you detract either part of Jesus, you end
>up with less than the total desription of His nature.
CARR
He was tired and thirsty and hungry, but never sleeps, drinks and eats
in John 4. Clearly not human.
Unorthodox Christian views were never defeated by appealing to
scripture. They had to be persecuted and their books burned before
orthodoxy won out.
--
Steven Carr