2 Kings 2

Ralph Nielsen nielsen@uidaho.edu
Sat, 14 Feb 1998 15:26:21 -0800 (PST) (00887520381, v03007807b10b54223a3e@[129.101.112.42]) 

RALPH NIELSEN
I forwarded the question (see end of this message) to a local inerrantist,
Aaron Zenner.  Here are his comments and my replies.

AARON ZENNER

>Ralph,

>Is who my God?  This passage doesn't even mention God except Elisha's use

>of His name.  Do you think I worship Elisha?  The Bible is filled with

>imperfect people, that is what makes it so beautiful, real and honest.

>Why didn't the Jews of past generations take this story out of their

>scriptures? Do you think that they or anyone could take great joy in the

>hearing of this story?  If the scriptures are fused together from many

>different sources, J, E, D, P, Q however many there are now, why did they

>insert such a horrible story?


RALPH NIELSEN
Because it tells us what a powerful God YHWH (the LORD) is. If one of his
prophets pronounces a curse in his name, you had better watch out. YHWH was
no lover of children and fetuses, so he had no problem in sending a couple
of she-bears to kill those snotty brats. I'm sure it taught their parents a
good lesson: you must raise your children in the fear of a jealous God.

AARON
  The Bible is filled with horrible stories.

>Who in the world compiling a text from various sources to form a body of

>scripture on which to base and legitimize a religion would include such

>stories which make the God of that religion seem so fickle, capricious and

>mean?  That does not make sense.


RALPH
Oh, but it does make sense if you know the OT (Hebrew Bible) theology. Read
Deut. 28, which is a summary of how YHWH God runs his world. Read it
carefully, because it is one of the most important chapters in the entire
Bible. You are right, Aaron, God is fickle, capricious, and mean, but don't
let one of his holy prophets hear you say it. We have bears in Idaho, too,
both blacks and grizzlies.

AARON

>There must be something deeper, maybe if

>you truly cared to seek God and to know Him you might find Him, the real

>Him.  Does this story say that God sent two she bears to kill the

>children?  I don't read that.  Elisha cursed them.  Did God respond to the

>plea of an imperfect man.  The text does not say.


RALPH
Aaron, if you read the entire chapter, you will see that Elisha is no
longer "an imperfect man," but is now a VIP (Very Important Prophet). He
has already done a couple of mighty deeds in the name of his God YHWH (LORD
in many translations), so no sooner are the little boys cursed in the name
of YHWH, but the bears appear; another mighty act of God's prophet.

AARON
Well then we must look

>further throughout the whole of scripture to see if we can gain a fuller

>picture of what God's character is and see if indeed it is in His

>character to do such a thing.


RALPH
Deut. 28 has the answer to your question

AARON
Upon doing so I will tell you that these 24

>children were immediately swept up into the arms of their creator, never

>to leave Him again.


RALPH
Aaron, you can't find a single reference anywhere in the Hebrew Bible, (or
the NT, either), where that happened.

AARON
  Ignorance of sin at a young age is not condemned by a

>just and loving God.


RALPH
The Bible is full of references that contradict your speculation. Besides
Deut. 28, right in the so-called Ten Commandments (Exodus20) YHWH promises
to punish children for the sins of their parents up to 3 and 4 generations
later. And I hope you have read of who deliberately drowned all the
children and pregnant women in the entire world (except for maybe a few in
a little wooden boat).

AARON
  It is when we get older, like you and me, that we

>stand guilty before God and in need of a savior for what we cannot do

>ourselves.


RALPH
"I, I am Yahweh (the LORD), and besides me there is no savior" (Isaiah
43:11), etc.

AARON
  I'll be praying that God will open your mind, Ralph, to see

>the wonderful thing, the priceless gift bought for you on the cross by

>Jesus Christ.  Bought for you and offered to you for absolutely free.  My

>God gave His only son for me so that I could spend eternity with Him.

>What is your God, and what has He done for you?


RALPH
Aaron, I know what the Bible says about saviors; I have just given you a
reference. There is no use in your referring to the Christian New
Testament, because it flatly contradicts what we read in the Hebrew Bible.

*************************************************************

>> >From: jdwalt01@worldnet.att.net

>> >Comments: Authenticated sender is <jdwalt01@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>

>> >To: errancy@infidels.org

>> >Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 01:20:38 +0000

>> >MIME-Version: 1.0

>> >Subject: 2 Kings 2

>> >

>> >Has this group ever looked at 2 Kings, Chapter 2, verses 23 and 24?


	<text and comment snipped>


>> >Drew and Michelle, Justin, & Shelby