2 Kings 2 (again)
Rick Gaudreau grgaud@sprint.ca
Sat, 14 Feb 1998 08:17:01 -0500 (00887483821, 34E5994D.94EB0471@sprint.ca)
Drew Walton wrote:
>
> Being new to the list, I am trying to figure out the "protocols" if
> you will. I would like to know if there are any other good examples
> of God's atrocities in the Bible. Surely these must be seen as
> contradictory to what the churches teach about God. Isn't this
> considered a form of errancy? Either the church is wrong, the Bible
> is errant, or both.
>
> If anyone would like to discuss this more with me (as an opening
> dialogue for a new member) I would appreciate it.
RICK G
Try these on for size Drew.
God kills 500,000 Israelites
(2 Chr 13:15 NRSV) Then the people of Judah raised the battle shout. And when
the people of Judah shouted, God defeated Jeroboam and all Israel before Abijah
and Judah.
(2 Chr 13:16-18 NRSV) The Israelites fled before Judah, and God gave them into
their hands. Abijah and his army defeated them with great slaughter; five
hundred thousand picked men of Israel fell slain.
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God slaughters 70 men for simply looking into the Ark.
(1 Sam 6:19 RSV) And he (God) slew some of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they
looked into the ark of the LORD; he slew seventy men of them, and the people
mourned because the Lord had made a great slaughter among the people.
---------------------
Here are some of the battles of Joshua for the possession of canaanite cities
and genocide of inhabitants as commanded by God
(All verses from book of Joshua NRSV)
(City of Jerico)(6:21) Then they devoted to destruction by the edge of the sword
all in the city, both men and women, young and old, oxen, sheep, and donkeys.
(City of Ai)(8:22)Israel struck them down until no one was left who survived or
escaped.
(8:29) And he hanged the king of Ai on a tree until evening; and at sunset
Joshua commanded, and they took his body down from the tree, threw it down at
the entrance of the gate of the city ...
(The Amorites) (10:10) ...(the Israelites) inflicted a great slaughter on them
at Gibeon ..., and struck them down as far as Azekah and Makkedah.
( God throws boulders down from heaven onto fleeing Amorites )
(10:11) As they fled before Israel, while they were going down the slope of
Beth-horon, the LORD threw down huge stones from heaven on them as far as
Azekah, and they died; there were more who died because of the hailstones than
the Israelites killed with the sword.
(There wasn't enough time in the day to complete the slaughter so God makes the
Sun stop moving in the sky )
(10:12-13) ...Joshua spoke to the LORD; and he said in the sight of Israel,
"Sun, stand still at Gibeon, and Moon, in the valley of Aijalon."
And the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, until the nation took vengeance
on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stopped in
midheaven, and did not hurry to set for about a whole day.
(God's mission accomplished with the Amorites) (10:20) When Joshua and the
Israelites had finished inflicting a very great slaughter on them, until they
were wiped out, ...
----------------
More battles of Joshua for the possession of cities and genocide of canaanite
inhabitants as commanded by God
(All verses from book of Joshua NRSV)
(City of Libnah)(10:30) The LORD gave it also and its king into the hand of
Israel; and he struck it with the edge of the sword, and every person in it; he
left no one remaining in it;
(City of Lachish)(10:32-33) ... and struck it with the edge of the sword, and
every person in it, as he had done to Libnah. Then King Horam of Gezer came up
to help Lachish; and Joshua struck him and his people, leaving him no survivors.
(City of Eglon)(10:35) and they took it that day, and struck it with the edge of
the sword; and every person in it he utterly destroyed that day, as he had done
to Lachish.
(City of Hebron)(10:37) and struck it with the edge of the sword, and its king
and its towns, and every person in it; he left no one remaining, just as he had
done to Eglon, and utterly destroyed it with every person in it.
(City of Debir)(10:39-40) and he took it with its king and all its towns; they
struck them with the edge of the sword, and utterly destroyed every person in
it; he left no one remaining;
So Joshua defeated the whole land, the hill country and the Negeb and the
lowland and the slopes, and all their kings; he left no one remaining, but
utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded.
--------------------
One last big battle of Joshua for the possession of cities and genocide of the
canaanite inhabitants)
Here finally, all the inhabitants of Canaan are exterminated
(all verses from the book of Joshua NRSV)
(11:1-4) People of Hazor, Madon, Shimron, Achshaph, northern hill country,
Arabah, Naphoth-dor, Canaanites in the east and the west, the Amorites (again?),
the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Jebusites and the Hivites unite against the
Israelites.
(11:14) All the spoil of these towns, and the livestock, the Israelites took for
their booty; but all the people they struck down with the edge of the sword,
until they had destroyed them, and they did not leave any who breathed.
(Let there be no doubt whose idea it was for these genocides)
(11:20) For it was the Lord's doing to harden their hearts (the canaanites) so
that they would come against Israel in battle, in order that they might be
utterly destroyed, and might receive no mercy, but be exterminated, just as the
LORD had commanded Moses.
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God threatens to punish the Israelites by forcing them to eat the flesh of their
children.
(Lev 26:27-28 NRSV) But if, despite this, you disobey me, and continue hostile
to me, I will continue hostile to you in fury; I in turn will punish you myself
sevenfold for your sins.
(Lev 26:29 NRSV) You shall eat the flesh of your sons, and you shall eat the
flesh of your daughters.
(Jer 19:9 NRSV) And I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh
of their daughters, and all shall eat the flesh of their neighbors in the siege,
and in the distress with which their enemies and those who seek their life
afflict them.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here God says "kill your brother, your friend, and your neighbor".
In this story, Moses is gone for a long time at the top of a mountain. Meanwhile
the children of Israel start partying and worshipping a golden calf.
When Moses comes down from the mountain he relays an order from God to start the
bloodbath.
(Exo 32:27-29 NRSV) He said to them, "Thus says the LORD, the God of Israel,
'Put your sword on your side, each of you! Go back and forth from gate to gate
throughout the camp, and each of you kill your brother, your friend, and your
neighbor.'"
The sons of Levi did as Moses commanded, and about three thousand of the people
fell on that day.
(Moses then speaks to the sons of Levi)
Moses said, "Today you have ordained yourselves for the service of the LORD,
each one at the cost of a son or a brother, and so have brought a blessing on
yourselves this day."
(The sons of Levi are blessed for randomly killing family members, friends, and
neighbors, whose only crime was worshipping the calf)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
God kills scores of innocent babies and children.
This is the very popular with christians Exodus myth where God is imagined to
strike down innocent babies and children for the actions of a Pharaoh whose
heart Yaweh himself had hardened (thus rendering the Pharaoh incapable of
complying with God's demands).
(Exo 11:10 NRSV) Moses and Aaron performed all these wonders before Pharaoh; but
the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he did not let the people of Israel go
out of his land.
(Here God has hardened Pharoah's heart and then turns around and punishes
Pharaoh's "decision" by murdering innocent babies and children)
(Exo 12:29 NRSV) At midnight the LORD struck down all the firstborn in the land
of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who sat on his throne to the firstborn
of the prisoner who was in the dungeon, and all the firstborn of the livestock.
-------------------------
I could go on, but there's just too much stuff like this in the "holy" bible. I
got this from a website, but I can't remember exactly where. I'll try and find
the URL for you if you're interested in seeing more slaughter, or, if you wish,
I can send you the text files I got the above from... by private e-mail of
course.
Now, get a bible and compare these passages with those that state that god is
good, kind, longsuffering, forgiving, compassionate, he is "love", yada yada
yada... If you think these are not contradictions, then write back and tell me
why they are not. ;-)
Btw, for 18 years, like so many christians, I rejoiced that god had slain his
enemies in such a fashion... except when I had some bits of rational thought and
tried top reconcile that with god's infinite "goodness".
Oh! and here's another one to sink your teeth into: god (Jesus), who is the
sustainer of all things...
Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be
glory for ever. Amen.
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are
in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or
principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And
he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his
person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by
himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Will torture people consciously, in hell forever and ever, in the ages of the
ages (Rev 14:9-11; 20:10). He will bu sustaining this hell evry second, of every
minute, of everyday.... well, I think you get the point.
As to this being a form of errancy, you bet your sweet bippy it is! Churchianity
can talk all they want about the "goodness" of god, but they can't reconcile
that with the genocidal murderer that the bible portrays him as being. Sorry for
being so brutal. ;-)
Rick Gaudreau
grgaud@sprint.ca
FAITH, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks
without knowledge, of things without parallel.
--- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary