Fw: Fw: Jesus's sins (for Nancy)

Brian Dean bridean@worldnet.att.net
Wed, 11 Feb 1998 22:41:05 -0500 (00887276465, 19980212033306.AAA17438@briandea) 

RONCRISS

> Remember Brian, Jesus was "angry" (yes, the Bible states that God gets 

> angry)when He expelled the money changers. He didn't just shoo them out. 

> He made a whip of cords and drove them out. This was a violent action. 

> These people, and many Christians too, keep confusing God/Jesus with 

> some conception of a stoical Greek philosopher or something. This is the 

> same God who nuked Sodom and Gomorrah and will one day destroy the earth 

> by fire (if my understanding of Revelation is correct)! The money 

> changers got off easy. And once again, from the Judeo-Christian 

> perspective, animals and trees do not have the same rights and status as 

> humans. Sorry.


CLAIRE
Nancy, how did you get to decide that these things were "sins"? Do 
you even believe that there really is such a thing as sin? Christians do
base many of their beliefs on the Bible (as well as tradition), and
Christians have always believed that Jesus was sinless. The passages 
you cited were not ignored when Christology was being developed. Could 
it be that Jesus was using certain expressions of rabbinical exaggeration
which would not be familiar to us today, but would have been 
familiar to his audience 2000 years ago? He did not intend to physically injure 
the moneychangers in the Temple; he merely wished to drive them out. 
They were profaning the Temple. Also, I can't see how he "stole animals" 
from the passage about the pigs.
 
CREA
As for the pigs, Jesus was responsible for their deaths just as  surely
as if he had fed them poison, or driven them into the sea himself.  
And I notice that he made no attempt to reimburse their owner for his loss.  
This is quite clearly prohibited behaviour according to the OT, as in 
Exodus 22:5-6.

CLAIRE
In a way though, I am glad to hear you say that you believe that 
Jesus sinned. Unlike many others on this board, at least you accept the 
fact that Jesus existed. (He couldn't have sinned if he didn't exist!)

CREA
Don't get your hopes up.  It is equally likely that Nancy's views are
those espoused concerning a fictional character -- like all the folks 
who spend endless hours discussing the fictional life of Sherlock Holmes.  
To have a concensus that Holmes kept his tobacco in a persian slipper 
does not lend credence to the belief that there really was a Sherlock Holmes 
or an actual persian slipper.