Adolph

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GEISIK
Damn...Do any of you folks SLEEP?  

Bones, you beat me to this and used most of by best arguments.  

OK, let's look at this.  I will try to address things with a slightly different twist.

<<SNIP>>

>>GEISIK

>>

>>Another would be our aforementioned epitome of Christianity, Hitler.

>>

>>Carl Geisik

>>

>BROTHER MICHAEL

>False! A Christian is a person who has completely surrendered his life to

>the Lord Jesus Christ such that Jesus Christ is the LORD of his life.

>Jesus Christ commanded His followers to love their enemies. He also said

>"BY THIS shall all men know that you are my disciples if you have LOVE

>for one another." 


GEISIK
Let's start with this one.  To repeat some of Bones' discussion:

If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters-- yes, even his own life-- he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26)

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword" (Matt. 10:34)

...and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one (Luke 22:36)

Real love shown there.

BRO. MIKE

>Tell me, Carl, in what way did Hitler show that he

>loved Jews? None! He hated Jews and had them killed. 


GEISIK
Well....so did God!  Let's look at these:

...there came out a fire from the Lord, and consumed the 250 men that offered incense" (Num. 16:35).

...the Lord sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died" (Num. 21:6). 

Not to mention the hundreds of years that Jews killed Jews, sanctioned by God after the rule of Solomon.

BRO. MIKE
<<<SNIP>>>

>All of Hitler's pious and devout words were not

>enough to keep him out of hell. 


GEISIK
And you know this HOW?  Isn't it clear from the NT teachings that all one has to do is "accept Jesus" and he is saved?  As one of the "ala carte" Christians told me, it is very possible that Hitler is enjoying himself in Heaven as we speak.

BRO. MIKE

>Jesus would say to Hitler: "Why do you

>call me Lord, Lord, and do not do the things I say; Depart from Me, you

>worker of iniquity, I NEVER knew you!" 


GEISIK
Once again Mike, HOW do you know this.  While I am willing to look at chapter and verse in support of Christian arguments, I tend to treat proselytizing and perspicacity as to what Jesus "might" say as just so many prevarications.


BRO. MIKE
<<SNIP>>

>Carl, I challenge you to show me any infidel who taught that we

>should love our enemies as plainly and clearly as Jesus Christ did. 


GEISIK
Mike.  I would turn your challenge around and show me how, in light of the above verses and many others that can be placed into discussion, Jesus loved anyone.

BRO. MIKE

>COMPASSIONATELY in the LOVE!!!!! AND TRUTH beyond ALL loves and truths in

>Jesus Christ our LORD,

>

>Brother Michael


GEISIK
Again, shown to be perfidious nonsense!

Let me also add that you do not have a monopoly on your belief that your way is the only one to salvation.  Perhaps that is why there are more than 1000 Christian cults around the world.  I am constantly told by some of them that what really matters is how YOU see yourself in relation to God and Jesus.  In that regard Hitler certainly qualified.  Lets look once again:

     My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a
     fighter. 
     <<SNIP>>
     With boundless love, as a Christian
     and as a man, I read the passages which relate how the Lord
     finally gathered His strength and made use of the whip in order
     to drive the usurers, the vipers, and cheats from the temple.
     <<SNIP>>
     I recognized this most profoundly by the fact that He had to shed
     his blood on the cross for his fight. As a Christian it is not my
     duty to permit myself to be cheated, but is my duty to be a
     champion of truth and of right.... As a Christian I owe something
     to my own people.... I am a veritable devil and not a Christian
     if I do not feel compassion and do not wage war, as our Lord did
     2,000 years ago, against those who are pillaging and exploiting
     this poor people .... Two thousand years
     ago a man was likewise denounced by this particular race which
     today is denouncing and blaspheming everywhere.... That man was
     dragged into court and they said then: He is arousing the people!
     So he also was "agitating." And against whom? Against "God," they
     cried. Yes indeed he was agitating against the "god" of the Jews,
     for that "god" is money. (Munich, April 12, 1922; Voelkische
     Beobachter, April 22, 1922).

Let's see.  He accepts Jesus as his savior.  Cha Ching...he is SAVED.  He uses the magic words about love and fellow man..Hey just like Bro. Mike!

Sounds to me like most of the fundamentalist preachers today.

Carl Geisik

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