A dose of their own medicine...
Dave Gaban drrod@slip.net
Tue, 01 Dec 1998 18:05:14 -0800 (00912585914, 3664A05A.1562@slip.net)
Donald T Scott wrote:
>
> >>
> >Dave G.
> >The above verse makes it very clear God keeps some from
> >understanding. If he condemns them to Hell, how can that
> >be fair or the fault of the one God "blinds the mind"?
> >So much for wanting us all to join him.
> >
> >> And I prayed to God to unveil my eyes, after I had confessed
> >> that I was blinded by *something*, but that I don't know
> >> what.
> >>
> >> After months of prayer, occurring DAILY, I have yet to
> >> receive the simplest thing I have asked for.
> >>
> >> If for some amazing reason, the bible-god is real, then
> >> it is His fault that I no longer believe. As is often
> >> told to me, I have not the slightest power to redeem
> >> myself. If He doesn't answer my prayer by lobotomizing
> >> me into believing again, then He wants me to go to Hell,
> >> or He doesn't exist.
> >
> >Dave G.
> >I came to the conclusion after he faild to help me understand or
> >answer
> >a single prayer, that he didn't exsist.
> >But If I'm wrong, I'll save you a seat. I'm sure many of my friends
> >will be there. There all good people so I'm sure you'll like them.
> >
> >> Until then...I'm not going to
> >> keep on saying "Hello?" into a silent phone. How many
> >> times do you have to say "Hello?" into the phone before
> >> you decide there isn't anyone on the other end, and you
> >> hang up? If I don't hang up, how can I receive any
> >> more calls. I'll hang up, and if He wants to call me
> >> back, that's fine, but He better identify Himself when
> >> I say "Hello?" the next time.
> >> --
> >> chief blackfoot
> >>
> >Dave G.
> >Don't hold your breath. God hasn't dropped me a line in the past 5
> >years since I began doubting. Come to think of it, he never dropped
> >in
> >the say hi before I lost faith. Go figure.
> >
>
> DTS
> Welcome to the theological basics of Five Point Calvinism. If Michael
> Morrill is still lurking, I'm sure he won't especially appreciate my
> unsympathetic characterizations of it, but they basically admit
> everything you just said.
>
> Know what else? They can be pretty dam smug about it, too.
>
> The five points of Calvinism are Total Depravity (man is absolutely
> unable to trust in Jesus Christ without God's "quickening" help),
> Unconditional Election (foreknowledge and "election" are part of the
> grand plan of God, and salvation for each individual is His choice
> alone), Limited Atonement (Jesus died only for the "elect", described
> above), Irresistible Grace (If God chooses you for salvation, you > can't fight it), and Perseverance of the Saints (if God chose you, He > will keep you, as you are totally depraved an unable to keep > yourself).
>
> What is so remarkable about Five Point Calvinism is it actually does take the concept of God's omniscience to its logical conclusion, and they accept it just as they'd accept the life insurance policy of your
neighborhood protection racketeer. An omniscient God really does know
the fate of all, and the fate of all really was his choice because after
all he knew what he was creating. If praying is for you like talking
into a dead telephone, it's because God hasn't chosen to save you (at
least yet). There is debate whether or not God rigged Adam and Eve's
fall in the garden. The logical conclusions of Five Point Calvinism
draw rage even from most evangelicals. (These evangelicals, to their
credit, recognize the repugnance of the Five-Point God; I wish they
would now recognize the repugnance of condemning a man for thinking and
believing his senses.)
>
> It is astonishing how someone can take the concept of an all knowing God, apply it to the Bible, consciously draw all of its logical conclusions, and still accept it.
>
> Yet, a few do, especially if one's career is on the line.
>
Dave G.
DTS, Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware that there was a church
dedicated to Gods' willing victims.