prayer & real xtians (was Re: How to argue?)

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>Carl Geisik

>Greetings,

>

><snip>

>Once again, I apologize if this is not the proper place

>for a question of this type.



>M.BELL

>I don't see any question worth answering. Just another

>errantist with an over-inflated egotistical opinion of

>themselves and their abilities. When you read the seventh

>translation see if you get hold of a Bible intended for

>adults and not kids.



>Dave G.

>Oh my, it seems M. Bell has blown a fuse!  Nothing like

>insults to prove your silly little God exsists.  Per the

>OT, your God spent plenty of time hangin' out with the

>people to prove his exsistence.  Why not now?  No parting

>of seas, no flaming chariots, no blood plagues, no

>destruction of entire cities due to corruption.

>Nothing!!!!!


It's because God knew we were getting too smart and too
good at documentation, and if we could clearly document
miracles, then it would be too easy for people seeking
the "One True God" to find Him.  This would be terrible,
because then it would only be people who want to be mean
selfish and depraved that would go to Hell.  That would
be bad!


><snip>

>All you need to understand that God is a myth is contained

>in the NT claims of Jesus that "if you have faith," a

>prayer WILL be granted.  The NT verses make it clear it is

>guaranteed you will receive what you prayed for.  So am I

>to understand no one throughout history has prayed for an

>end to child molestation, an end to hunger, an end to

>disease, etc, etc?


By being honest to God's Word, I have come to the following
conclusions about the effectiveness of prayer:

The Bible is very clear that if you ask for something in
prayer, in God's name, then God will do it for you.
He does this to glorify Himself.  It is very clear.

Just like we don't have the right to challenge the Creator's
notion of eternal joy in Heaven and eternal pain in Hell,
we don't have the right to challenge the very clear message
He's given us about the power of prayer.

Now we'll assume that the prayer can't be for obviously
ungodly stuff like a backyard orgy.  This leads me to a
very obvious conclusion (assuming the Bible-god's existence).

Any Christian that prays for something (like a healing,
or a much needed sign, or His revelation to some infidels),
and their prayer doesn't come true, then maybe they don't
believe enough.  BUT, all you need is faith the size of a
mustard seed, so that can't be it.  Well, then you must
believe in the wrong "version" of God.  Try believing in
another denomination's version.

Now, if any Christian wants to tell me that I don't have
any backing in making that statement, I can only refer
them to the blatant message of scripture.

Many Christians want to stay in the particular belief
structure that they feel right about.  They rationalize
why their prayers aren't answered so that they can continue
to believe in the wrong "version" of God.

Please!!!  I'm begging all of you Christians out there
to realize that God is *trying* to show you the "truth".
But you want so badly to stay in what YOU think is right.

He's saying, "My Word says that you will be able to do
many amazing things & your prayers will be answered in
the way that you pray them...Don't deny my promise...
Don't continue in your false truth."

Many try to deny God's promise to the true believer by
saying "God just said "not now"...yeah!  That's it!"

But I warn you...You are denying God's promise and His
power to carry it out!

It's not too late for you...let go of your selfish desire
for surety & righteousness.  Continue the search until you
find the church that teaches the truth.  When you find them,
you will know it, because you will see that I have fulfilled
my promise to them.  They will heal the sick & be unaffected
by snake bites & scorpion stings.  They have no need for
humanity-worshiping hospitals.  All healings are done by
God for HIS people.  If the promises I made are not showing
up in your life; if you find your prayers unanswered; if
you find yourself having to rationalize away the failure of
a prayer by fooling yourself into thinking that God has to
wait a while before He can answer; then YOU are denying
God's power!  He does NOT like this, and even though He
loves you now, you will have to pay for your doubt and
your selfish human rationalizations!

God *did* say that FEW would make it to Heaven.


><snip>

>Maybe If you pray for us to understand, he will respond

>as guaranteed by the NT verses.  If not, you and your God

>lose again!


I have been sent some emails suggesting that the reason
that my 100's of prayers over the past few months haven't
been answered is that I just "think" they haven't been
answered.  God will answer, but He will answer at a time
when the benefits of my re-conversion will be the highest.

This makes good horse sense.

One problem is that I don't want to serve "Chance".  I
could pray to ANY god for a non-specific sign and get an
answer (at least what my over-imaginative mind would
perceive as an answer).

To make sure that I don't disappoint God by serving
Him just because of chance (especially since chance
could have me re-converting at the wrong time), I
have been moved to create a situation where I will
not be fooled by an over-active imagination.

I will be placing two glasses in a secret place in my
closet.  I will label one glass "Reason" & the other
"God".  In the glass labeled "Reason", I will place
a marble.  Every day for the next few months, I will
check the glasses to see where the marble is.  If it
is still in "Reason", then I will use what I learn
through "Reason" to guide my life.  If it is in "God",
then I will immediately fall down to the ground and
acknowledge the truth of God's promise to answer
prayer, and will dedicate my life to becoming closer
to Him and bringing others to Him.  After the first
few months, I will check the glasses once every week
for the same thing.  After a year, I will consider
getting rid of the glasses...If I'm moved not to, then
I won't.  If I'm moved to do so, I will keep them till
the day I die.

Amen...

--
chief blackfoot

". . . a very LONG discussion is one of the
most effective veils of Fallacy: . . . A
Fallacy which when stated barely . . . would
not deceive a child, may deceive half the
world if diluted in a quarto volume"

Richard Whately, "Elements of Logic", p. 151

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