2 religions in the peninsula of the Arabs
Robert Squires rob_squires@hotmail.com
Mon, 29 Sep 1997 11:04:05 PDT (00875577845, 19970929180406.22723.qmail@hotmail.com)
>>SQUIRES
>>Well Sayed, you should criticize the Saudis for not following
>>Islamic Law. According to several hadeeths, no other religion except
>>for Islam is allowed in the Arabian Peninsula and non-Muslims are
>>not allowed to live there. What would people think of Islam if this
>>ever happened?
>
>CARR
>Could you tell me which hadeeths please?
SQUIRES
Unfortunately, all of my books are still in storage (I recently moved
from Kuwait to Florida). It'll probably be a couple of months before I
have access to them, since I'm still house hunting. However, I know
these hadeeth are are "saheeh" (or at least "hasan"). You might try one
of the hadeeth search engines on the net. I don't think that they're in
Bukhari or Muslim, but in one of the other collections. You might
research the fact that Caliph (Khalifah) 'Umar kicked the Jews off of
the Arabian Peninsula as per the Prophet's order. Notice that Sayed
didn't respond to the above, but instead just snipped two little quips
of the numerous issues that I brought up (in two other e-mails). That's
typical Muslim strategy - ignore all of the issues that you can't answer
and instead try to discredit your adversary by bringing up a couple of
more subjective/debatable ones.
CARR
>A leading religionist in the Daily Telegraph, who is forever praising
>Islam (without going so far as to quote Muhammad), claimed that the
>Prophet Muhammad would have been far too wise not to allow religious
>minorities to have their own religious organisations and religious
>leaders to offer them moral advice.
SQUIRES
I don't give much to what people "claim" or "think". It's just one guy's
opinion. He needs to look at the sources, since that's where Muslims
look.
CARR
>This is a concept that I may need to spend some time with before
>accepting!
SQUIRES
Even IF it was true, Muhammad would come across more as a calculating &
scheming diplomat than someone receiving divine revalation.
CARR
>He said that the Saudi insistence on no churches in the Hijaz (right
>term?) was a minority ruling of the Wahabi (sp?) sect and that most
>Muslims did not accept it.
SQUIRES
It my memory serves me right, it's the entire Arabian Peninsula, not
just the Hijaz (which is the west cost of the peninsula along the Red
Sea, which includes Makkah and al-Madinah). I remember a discussion in
Kuwait on whether non-believers should be allowed in Kuwait since it was
(maybe?) part of the Arabian Peninsula. It's kind of on the edge, but
there was general agreement - based on the hadeeth - that IF Kuwait was
part of the peninsula, then "kafaar" should not be allowed.
CARR
>BTW, he also claimed that the Pope would support and pay for a mosque
>in the Vatican, if there did happen to be any Muslims living in the
>Vatican state!
>As you may or may not know, a British nurse has just been sentenced >to
500 lashes and eight years imprisonment after being found guilty >of
being an accessory to murder.
SQUIRES
I'm glad you brought me up to date on this. This murder took place when
I was there. At that time there were two nurses on trial for the murder
of an older Australian nurse. The way it was portrayed back then, they
seemed rather guilty - i.e. they were caught using the victims credit
cards, were trying to flee the country, etc. It they were Pakistani
labourers or Filipino housemaids, they'd have already been beheaded.
But luckily, we Westerners get BETTER justice over their due to the
influence of our Embassy. I don't know why the Saudis would want to
convict and punish a nurse if they weren't guilty beyond a reasonable
doubt, especially with all the bad press it causes.
CARR
>This has caused an outcry in the UK, mainly because the judicial
>process was not exactly British justice, and we had the interesting
>spectacle of Western liberal Christians saying on radio that the
>outcry was *purely* a result of attempts to demonise Islam.
>
>We get many Western liberals praising Islam, yet, AFAIK, the only
>thing which ever gets quoted from the Qu'ran is 2:256 "There is no
compulsion in religion".
SQUIRES
Yes, well if they pick and choose from their own scripture and religious
doctrines, why not do the same with someone else's?
CARR
>In the same way, the sayings of Jesus which get quoted most often are
>the Beatitudes and never Matt. 23 or 24.
>
>Western liberal Christians have the strange view that religion is for
>praising , not quoting.
>
>If I were allowed to choose the Bible passages which are printed in
>newspapers as 'Thought for the Day' or 'Word of the Week', I wonder
>how long it would take Christians to complain volubly.
>
>Let's see :-
>Monday Numbers 31:17-18
>Tuesday Luke 6:30
>Wednesday Matthew 15:4
>Thursday Ezekiel 23:20
>Friday Luke 14:26
>Saturday - Editor deluged with complaints
SQUIRES
True. And what percentage of the Bible gets preached about in sermons on
Sunday? Back when I went to (many different) churches, it seemed that
90% of the time it was one of Paul's letters that was discussed. It was
usually some metaphysical B.S. that was easy to swallow.
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