A Fallacious Tear-Jerking Scenario

Jeff Epler jepler@inetnebr.com
Thu, 11 Sep 1997 19:30:02 -0500 (00874045802, 19970911193002.37090@inetnebr.com) 

On Thu, Sep 11, 1997 at 11:47:06PM +0100, Matt Bell wrote:

> ><snip>

> >NANCY

> >Yes, Matt. What one *can* do and what one *does* do are two different

> >things. That is why I find the xtian god so damned abhorent. He

> >could prevent innocent children from suffering, but he choses not

> >to. He could have made himself known to everyone, and thus have

> >saved countless millions from the neverending torment *he* choses to

> >impose upon those he is supposed to love, yet he prefers to torture

> >his creation. He made his own son suffer for the sins of others

> >even though he is perfectly capable of forgiving sins without human

> >sacrifice. The only reasonable conclusion to draw is that the xtian

> >god is a sadistic bastard who gets his jollies from human suffering.

> >If a human stands idly by while others suffer or causes others to

> >suffer, as the xtian god does, we call him a heartless, inhuman

> >monster. Perhaps we should just call him God.

> >

> >MATT

> >What would you do if your son/daughter was being raped by a group of

> >men.  Intervene or stand back and watch?

> >

> NANCY

> What is the relevancy of this question? 

> 

> MATT

> The relevancy is to answer your above post.


I'm afraid you'll have to spell it out for me, I'm just not getting it.

The story as we understand it from the bible:
	God creates people with a disposition to sin
	God makes other silly laws about forgiveness of sin
	4000 years pas
	God realizes that he'll send all his people to hell because of
	  the rules he made 4000 years earlier
	God cooks up a plan, zots some divine DNA into an ovum in
	  Mary's body, waits 30 years and kills the person he fathered
	God's plan still only keeps a fraction of all people from
	  hellfire
This situation reminds me of one where a person does something wrong
and continually does worse and worse things to cover up the original
bad deed.  God made his own problem, and his eventual solution was
murder.  Note that if God had done something else at the time he
created humans, he would not have had to murder his son.

The kinds of situations in which Errancy members have said it would be
moral to permit someone to be raped are this:
	Some person brings about a situation where either
		1. He will kill a large number of people including an
		   innocent girl
	or	2. He will kill no one but rape one person
	and no other outcomes have an appreciable probability.
In this case, it is _someone else_ who caused the problem, and I (and
other reasonable people) wish to act in a way to minimize the bad
results of this situation that we aren't responsible for.

Even if it turns out that these situations are identical in the
relevant way, I don't know what you've proven---Have you proven that
God himself practices situational ethics?  Other inerrantists would
avoid this result like the plague.  If that's your point, then I still
wonder why it took God 4000 years to figure out his plan, if he was
omnicient---One part of being omnicient would be the ability to solve
any finite-time problem instantaneously.  An instant is quite a bit
smaller than 4000 years.  Of course, an omnicient being would have seen
from the beginning the results of putting together humans with his laws
of sin, and not done it in the first place.  I just can't see any way
these two examples fit together unless you're claiming that God didn't
notice for 4000 years all the souls going down into eternal torment,
and/or couldn't think up a solution at all quickly.  I know this must
not be what you mean, because these are laughably low expectations to
have of an omnimax god.

As I said, you'll have to spell out for me ... I'm just not
understanding so far.

Jeff
BTW if the catholic faith is incorrect, doesn't that mean that for about
14 or 15 centuries (virtually) everyone (because those who would have
read the bible and formed the correct set of beliefs would have been
extremely few) who lived on earth died and went to hell?  If you believe
that Catholics in fact do not go to hell, then what is "wrong" about
the catholic faith?
-- 
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