Limitation on God? (Ben)

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On Tue, Oct 21, 1997 at 10:12:21PM +0100, Matt Bell wrote:
 > 
 > BEN
 > Can God not give us both freewill and a perfect world at the same time?  Is
 > there a limitation on God?
 > 
 > MATT
 > My claim is  that is exactly what he gave us in Genesis. How man exercised
 > that freewill is why that world is no longer perfect.
 
 Which of the following statements do you believe are true, and which
 are false:
 
 1. Adam had free will and chose to sin.
 2. Adam had free will yet he definitely would have sinned.
 3. Jesus had free will but never chose to sin.
 4. Jesus had free will yet could not have chosen to sin.
 5. In heaven, the saved have free will and may choose to sin.
 6. In heaven, the saved have free will but will never choose to sin.
 7. All humans have free and some will never sin
 8. All humans have free will yet will sin at one time or another.
 
 I guess I just don't understand how free will is supposed to work ...
 It seems to bolster theological arguments when necessary, but I'm not
 sure that free will doesn't pose a problem for some other Christian
 positions.
 
 Jeff >>


Sorry Matt, I missed this post.  I guess I'll respond now.  Well, I disagree
with all eight.  The first two on the basis that Adam never existed.  The
second two on the basis that we are talking about a different Jesus.  I don't
believe in sin.  I'm atheist.  But according to your doctrine, and your
"evidence" of Jesus, I suppose that 'character' never sinned.  Also, I don't
believe that 'character' could have sinned.  The whole story just seems
inaccurate to me.  I disagree with 5 and 6 on the basis that there is no
heaven.  Again, these are why this whole concept is incoherent.  If there is
free will, and we have it in heaven, then it would be erroneous to think that
we would never sin in heaven.  After all (in your Bible), God's greatest angel
betrayed him.  (Of course this is ridiculous.  If God knows all, then why did
he make Satan?  And why did he make sin, for that matter?  A creator God who
is alpowerful and all good CAN NOT HAVE SOMETHING HE DISAPPROVES OF IN HIS
WORLD!).  7 & 8 I disagree with because I don't know the answer.  I don't know
if some will ever sin.  I don't know the future.  And it would be a lie if you
claimed to.  Sure "God said" none would be perfect, but really, what kind of
free will is that?  Ah, geez.  Petty mythology is all I see.

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