To Ralph - more about abortion & contraception.

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Ralph Nielsen wrote:

> 

(snip)


> >CLAIRE

> >Ralph, may I ask you what influence a staunchly anti-Communist Catholic

> >Pope had on family- planning policies in the former Soviet Union, which

> >has been governed by atheists?




> RALPH

> What does atheism have to do with it? In Communist Romania the atheist

> Ceausescu made abortion a serious crime, and made pregnancy almost

> compulsory. There were no contraceptives available there, either.

> 

CLAIRE
I thought you were discussing the role of only the RC Church. That's why
I asked what influence the Pope had in the atheist countries.


> ....



>RALPH 

> Oh, I know about the so-called rythm method -  Vatican roulette. As H.L.

> Mencken pointed out over 60 years ago, Catholics are allowed to use

> mathematics for contraceptives, but not physics or chemistry.  Of course,

> it's all hypocrisy. If sex is only for procreation, why try to have it only

> on "safe" days of the month?

> >

CLAIRE
Actually, the "rhythm" method (now called Natural Family Planning) has
been refined since the days of H.L. Mencken. The RC Church no longer
teaches that sex is only for procreation, although it still teaches that
sex should be reserved for marriage.


> >CLAIRE

> >Isn't it amazing how much temporal power the pope has? All the leaders

> >of the world bow down to him! Are you serious, or are you just trying to

> >make me angry? If you're trying to make me angry, it won't work.

> 

> RALPH

> I've just pointed out Poland as a country where the pope has a great deal

> of temporal power. And there was Franco's Spain, and Ireland, etc. I didn't

> say "all the leaders of the world bow down to" the pope. Those are your

> words, not mine.

> 

CLAIRE
Ireland's birth rate is only slightly higher than replacement (I heard
it was either 2.2 or 2.3 children per couple - I can try to check it.)
Spain's is lower than that. Italy has one of the lowest birth rates of
all. 

I was being sarcastic when I said "all the leaders of the world bow down
to the pope". You had said that contraceptives were made unavailable in
all these countries "to please the pope and his minions". I don't think
you proved your case. 


> CLAIRE

> >The economic situation in Mexico, and the fact that employers are

> >willing to hire illegal immigrants, has more to do with the flood of

> >illegal immigrants than the lack of availability of contraceptives or

> >abortion services.

> 

> RALPH

> The lack of contraceptives has a great deal to do with the economic

> situation in Mexico. And do please try to understand that women abort

> unwanted pregnancies BECAUSE they didn't have effective contraceptives.

> Does it take a man to tell you that? (I mean men like me, not the pope.)

> >

CLAIRE
Do you have evidence to back up that statement? Also, are a lot of women
aborting their pregnancies in Mexico because they don't have
contraceptives? What is the abortion rate (legal or illegal) in Mexico? 

One thing I'd like to mention about Lise, your secretary who had a large
family: Everyone in that huge family was born before the pill was
available.

~Claire O'Connor

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